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qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

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Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#51

Post by petesergeant »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

i find something a bit funny in an ai project, written by ai, requiring human-written text with specific guidance to not use ai. " Given that coding agents write most underlying code now, we'd prefer PRs in the form of human-written text. [...] Please do not have AI artificially expand what you'd like to do into a formal proposal. "

That's not surprising. I have much the same thing in my latest open-source work[0]. I have a workflow that's working nicely with agents, it's more of a pain to review someone else's code than it is to get a well-written description of their problem.

0: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/byre?tab=contributing-ov-file

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#52

Post by tclancy »

> Learn your writing voice from past sends, then triage your inbox on a schedule — labels and reply drafts included

Oh grand. The world will be full of agents talking to agents and nothing getting done. So pretty much the same only I can just leave my machine awake to look busy.

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#55

Post by joshstrange »

yewenjie wrote: post #4

Is Hermes the best openclaw like agent as they mention running it before? Also, what are power uses really using openclaw like systems for?

Hermes is what I was using but I still found it annoying I often wanted to operate 1-2 levels deeper.

Yesterday I just decided to try writing my own version (100% just for me, not open source, no monetization plan, incredibly custom) and I've been enjoying working on it so far (I know, I know, it's been a day, honeymoon period and all that).

Part of it is I like building software (even if I'm not writing every line) and part is I like having full control. Turns out (and many people have said this) the basic agent loop really isn't all that special. There are a million levers to pull and what not outside the base loop but that the fun part for me. Trying out different ways to add on to the core concept.

I'm really enjoying being untethered for things like "how will I monetize?" or "how do I make this generic so others can use it?". If I need functionality I just add it in, I don't need to make it infinitely pluggable, etc.

All that said, I'm thankful to things like nanoclaw and then Hermes for exposing me to the core ideas. I just want to put my own spin on it.

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#56

Post by 2001zhaozhao »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

i find something a bit funny in an ai project, written by ai, requiring human-written text with specific guidance to not use ai. " Given that coding agents write most underlying code now, we'd prefer PRs in the form of human-written text. [...] Please do not have AI artificially expand what you'd like to do into a formal proposal. "

i think it makes perfect sense and I'll probably adopt the same posture for my open source project.

The idea is that the core dev team is the one with the AI harness. If someone contributes an idea they can just feed it to their AI to implement it and it probably costs 10 minutes of human time, because they trust that their harness will be able to implement the feature competently.

So, because the implementation effort is so low, the only aspect that matters if the quality of the idea. It's way easier to screen human written text than a bunch of code in a PR. If you just give them code, they would not know if you made it with a competent harness. If you gave them a AI written design they would have a lot more to read through to decide whether it's slop. If you just give them an idea it's a lot easier to determine whether it's high quality.

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#57

Post by titanomachy »

jaggederest wrote: post #41
stefan_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the README is generated ("Two skills maintain the boundary in both directions.") and the demo is .. a Mobius strip? I'd prefer if you explain what it is you are building in the form of human-written text.

Well, if they're consistent, the ADR directory contains only human written text that drives the underlying development... Aaand it's empty. Well. I personally would probably have the readme generated based on that directory as the primary document, probably with another `readme_generation_rules.md` in the ADRs directory, and I would be pretty ruthless about disallowing all the slop-adjacent wording.

> I would be pretty ruthless about disallowing all the slop-adjacent wording.

I’d think that trying to play whack-a-mole with slop like that would result in a lengthy prompt, as well as being brittle to future changes.

If you want the prompt to be the source of truth, you’re probably going to have to accept prose that feels like AI, at least until you can regenerate with some future smarter model.

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#58

Post by 2001zhaozhao »

I'll need to explore how they're doing org wide context and security for sure. This seems extremely complementary to my own coding tool which currently gives the best AI interface for individuals.

Would be cool if in a few epic tickets i'll have both their org wide architecture AND a productive individual coding interface :)

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#59

Post by 2001zhaozhao »

epistasis wrote: post #37

It's fascinating to see new UI primitives and concepts get invented in the LLM era. The sea of creativity makes it hard to even understand most of what each new app does, and nobody describes them well. When I went to the Hermes agent web page, I was left with zero clue about what it did or what it could do. It took a bit of digging to find the right part of the qm page that helped me grok what was going on. I've bec…

It's really hard to focus on the unique aspect of your tool because it runs the risk that people will think it's unfamiliar and therefore not useful to them. That's why a lot of the tool marketing pages look the same even though the tools themselves might be different or innovative

Re: qm – Multiplayer agent harness for work

#60

Post by jychang »

j45 wrote: post #40
epistasis wrote: post #37

It's fascinating to see new UI primitives and concepts get invented in the LLM era. The sea of creativity makes it hard to even understand most of what each new app does, and nobody describes them well. When I went to the Hermes agent web page, I was left with zero clue about what it did or what it could do. It took a bit of digging to find the right part of the qm page that helped me grok what was going on. I've bec…

AI needs entirely new primitives in many areas.

It's hard to say what is needed now, vs needed in a few years.

For example, many rumors say SSI has solved learning and retaining state. That would significantly change AI requirements.

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