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WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

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Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#51

Post by DigitalSea »

zalew wrote: post #13
NathanKP wrote: post #5

There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig ( http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ ). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are som…

>> Twig ( http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ ). The syntax is very Django/Jinja alike. They took good inspiration. Meanwhile, why the Wordpress team didn't switch to a template engine and orm after all those years is a true mystery to me.

Considering Wordpress isn't and probably will never be a true MVC application, I don't see the point of adding in a template parser like Twig and separating code. All it does is adds unnecessary overhead all at the cost of prettier code, there's no other advantage to be honest considering PHP itself is already somewhat a templating engine. If people want a CMS that separates code from the presentation layer, they probably shouldn't be using Wordpress and considering Drupal instead. I've used Drupal and Wordpress quite extensively and let me tell you, after building one site in Drupal you truly appreciate just how easy Wordpress makes it to get stuff done in half the time even if it is at the cost of prettier code (clients don't care about code cleanliness all they care about is results and Wordpress gets results).

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#52

Post by denharsh »

DigitalSea wrote: post #50
bdcravens wrote: post #35

I wish they'd put some serious resources into dealing with comment spam. I realize it'll always be an issue, but they could at least: 1) not make comments enabled out of box with no anti-spam measures (moderating isn't anti-spam in my opinion: technical solutions should come before man-power) 2) not make me rely on third-party plugins to combat it

Akismet does a great job dealing with comment spam. Activate it and input your API key and you're done. Even other applications like PHPbb and "insert PHP content management system here" have problems with spam, it's not as easy as you think to detect and deal with spam.

Try GASP ..that's great too..

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#53

Post by cooperadymas »

intelliot wrote: post #47
cooperadymas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying there's little competition is a huge stretch. WordPress is the dominant force by a large margin. But from small static site generators, hosted platforms, other open source alternatives, to enterprise-ready solutions there are a lot of competitors hitting nearly every segment of the market. http://trends.builtwith.com/cms provides some good trends of the big players, but I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Tha…

> there are a lot of great products out there that are built much better than WordPress and I wish one of them were the dominant player. Honest question: Can you name one? I'm seriously looking for a WordPress alternative, but I haven't found one that is truly BETTER.

What I mean by this is others have a better structured, more solid & easily extendable code base, better separation between presentation and logic, etc.. Obviously, this is somewhat of an opinion, and it only refers to the underlying structure. For the end user, WordPress is probably the best. A large part of this is due to its ecosystem of plugins and themes. You shouldn't need to build custom code on top of WordPress unless you are doing something very unique, building an application (as opposed to a "website"), or attempting to tie together several plugins.

Sticking with PHP, both http://modx.com/ and http://www.silverstripe.org/ are fairly popular and well-built. I've also heard good things of http://www.concrete5.org/ , http://www.movabletype.com/ , http://textpattern.com/ , and http://ellislab.com/expressionengine . http://habariproject.org/en/ has also been built specifically to address many of the faults in WordPress and other popular systems.

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#54

Post by znowi »

huskyr wrote: post #12
NathanKP wrote: post #5

There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig ( http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ ). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are som…

Yup, WordPress follows all bad practices of a typical PHP project: mixed PHP and HTML all over the place, lots of global functions instead of classes and direct calls to the MySQL functions instead of PDO so you can't use another database like Postgres. Pity it's so widely used, and there's little competition...

Speaking of competition. A while ago I saw an announcement of the Habari project, set out to build a "WordPress done right". I checked just now and they're still around. Released v0.9, which is PHP 5.3 only. It may be worth a look for those who seek a more modern approach.

http://habariproject.org

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#55

Post by MikeCodeAwesome »

huskyr wrote: post #12
NathanKP wrote: post #5

There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig ( http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ ). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are som…

Yup, WordPress follows all bad practices of a typical PHP project: mixed PHP and HTML all over the place, lots of global functions instead of classes and direct calls to the MySQL functions instead of PDO so you can't use another database like Postgres. Pity it's so widely used, and there's little competition...

I wasn't aware of this, but mildweed posted later that PDO is coming. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4907099

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#56

Post by jacques_chester »

NathanKP wrote: post #5

There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig ( http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ ). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are som…

I'm no fan of PHP, but building a template engine inside a template engine strikes me as particularly perverse.

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#57

Post by jacques_chester »

ceejayoz wrote: post #9
dave1010uk wrote: post #3

Does anyone know if / when WordPress may start using a modern PHP framework (eg zf2 / symfony2)?

It wouldn't really be WordPress anymore at that point. You're likely talking about a rewrite of virtually every bit of code.

I propose that we sail there in the Ship of Theseus.

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#58

Post by eclipticplane »

cooperadymas wrote: post #53
intelliot wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are a lot of great products out there that are built much better than WordPress and I wish one of them were the dominant player. Honest question: Can you name one? I'm seriously looking for a WordPress alternative, but I haven't found one that is truly BETTER.

What I mean by this is others have a better structured, more solid & easily extendable code base, better separation between presentation and logic, etc.. Obviously, this is somewhat of an opinion, and it only refers to the underlying structure. For the end user, WordPress is probably the best. A large part of this is due to its ecosystem of plugins and themes. You shouldn't need to build custom code on top of WordPre…

Isn't MoveableType in Perl?

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#59

Post by bdcravens »

DigitalSea wrote: post #50
bdcravens wrote: post #35

I wish they'd put some serious resources into dealing with comment spam. I realize it'll always be an issue, but they could at least: 1) not make comments enabled out of box with no anti-spam measures (moderating isn't anti-spam in my opinion: technical solutions should come before man-power) 2) not make me rely on third-party plugins to combat it

Akismet does a great job dealing with comment spam. Activate it and input your API key and you're done. Even other applications like PHPbb and "insert PHP content management system here" have problems with spam, it's not as easy as you think to detect and deal with spam.

I've used other pieces of software, even some paid-for PHP features, so I agree as to the spam problem. I was thinking more along the lines of disabling comments by default, and making it a bit of a chore to enable, to make point-and-click installs less of an attack vector.

Re: WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

#60

Post by kyriakos »

Twentytwelves mobile first approach for me is source of pain. They essentially dropped support for IE8 and below which means people in corporate environments like the company I work for who are stuck to windows xp due to other legacy software that requires it cannot view the desktop view of themes based on WordPress new default theme.
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