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GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

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Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#51

Post by m463 »

zdragnar wrote: post #47
m463 wrote: post #45

> a round-trip efficiency of 96 percent Doesn't matter for cars, but I think that's pretty good/important for grid storage.

Lithium batteries in cars are usually at least that good already. Most of the efficiency lost is in converting back and forth between AC/DC between the grid and the motors, and the rest in the auxillary features such as heating and cooling the cabin.

sorry, probably should have quoted the entire thing:

> The batteries are showing a round-trip efficiency of 96 percent, a significant 2 to 3 percent better than LFP. (“Round trip” refers to the amount of energy a battery discharges, relative to the amount used to charge it).

I think for cars, the efficiency probably doesn't matter that much. If it costs $1.03 per kwh instead of $1.00 per kwh, or 103 miles vs 100 miles, no car owner will care.

But grid storage is all about efficiency.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#52

Post by thedays »

hunterpayne wrote: post #14
cramer4next wrote: post #8

Its a failure in the U.S. because the bet is on solid state batteries. Personally I won't take the EV plunge until they have those. The only exception for me to not wait would be the 10k BYD car. At that price point and it lasted 3 years i'd be happy.

Nobody in their right mind would put Na-ion batteries in an EV. The lawsuits would never stop. It would be worse than Asbestos lawsuits.

Ridiculous statement without any evidence. CATL and Changan Automotive are already making and putting them in EVs.

https://electrek.co/2026/02/05/first-sodium-ion-battery-ev-d...

Sodium ion batteries are safer than Lithium ion or LFP batteries and also perform better in very cold temperatures.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#53

Post by scarecrowbob »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #42
rsyring wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would you pay for that shed size battery?

I mean, I pay around $2,000 (AUD) per annum for electricity from the grid. If this battery plus some solar panels could get us free power for the next 20+ years, that's easily worth $15-$20k or so.

I am about 2 years in to my off-grid solar setup. The cost for the easement was looking to be about $25k, plus about 30k for the wire, transformer, et.

I live in middle of nowhere so I just built out a system myself. I am about 8k into it. It's not the biggest system (6kw inverter, 4kw panels, 15kwh storage) but it's fine for one old man living a 2kM in the high desert.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#54

Post by defrost »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #50
Aboutplants wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love a shed sized battery sitting on the corner of my property if it could give me 5-7 days of power.

I'm writing this from my off grid shack. I have 15kwh of lifepo, and even if it weren't hooked to 4kw of solar I could still run my fridge, charge my phone, and run the fan in my fireplace for 4-6 days... longer if I dump the fridge. It's 6U of deep 19" rack space. So 2 x that isn't an entire shed-sized battery. Though I'd happily have a shed-sized battery... I suspect that delivering and covering something that size…

> It's 6U of deep 19" rack space.

If the GP commenter is typing in from the UK .. that's a not uncommon garden tool shed size.

By contrast modern Australian farm sheds have clouds forming within them and host birds that seasonally migrate from one side to the other.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#55

Post by nine_k »

tootie wrote: post #3

> Peak Energy is buying its commercial cells via contracts with Chinese suppliers So really just assembly and sales then. I suppose it's a good start and maybe if business takes off they can figure out their own cells.

Chinese companies started similarly 25-30 years ago.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#57

Post by UltraSane »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #50
Aboutplants wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love a shed sized battery sitting on the corner of my property if it could give me 5-7 days of power.

I'm writing this from my off grid shack. I have 15kwh of lifepo, and even if it weren't hooked to 4kw of solar I could still run my fridge, charge my phone, and run the fan in my fireplace for 4-6 days... longer if I dump the fridge. It's 6U of deep 19" rack space. So 2 x that isn't an entire shed-sized battery. Though I'd happily have a shed-sized battery... I suspect that delivering and covering something that size…

They make hyper-insulated refrigerators for use on ships with limited electricity that use either vacuum insulated panels or aerogel insulation.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#58

Post by CamperBob2 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #28
hunterpayne wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in their right mind would put Na-ion batteries in an EV. The lawsuits would never stop. It would be worse than Asbestos lawsuits.

I think you need to start backing up your claims. (And no, beautiful, clean coal won't cut it.)

I think people should start flagging his posts. Obviously he's not here to participate in good faith.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#59

Post by pixl97 »

bickfordb wrote: post #36
Aboutplants wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love a shed sized battery sitting on the corner of my property if it could give me 5-7 days of power.

For something like a battery backup that last decades that doesn't need maintenance, maybe you could bury it out of the way (like under a deck or lawn?), maybe even under the frost line.

Underground is a big problem with it comes to water permeation and flooding.

The other potential problem with a lot of energy systems that use things that have hydrogen in them is running power over the systems for long periods of time can start to leak hydrogen. You'll always want to ensure you have ventilation to ensure whatever is outgassing can escape the system. You'll end up with explosions, hydrogen embrittlement, or interesting corrosion in ways you didn't think were possible.

Re: GM Backs Sodium Ion Batteries for U.S. Grid Storage

#60

Post by cyberax »

lenerdenator wrote: post #37
cyberax wrote: post #6

Keep in mind, we could have had local Na-Ion battery production in the US. The company producing them needed about $5m of bridge loans, with products already sitting in warehouses awaiting the UL certification. This company got sold for scrap.

Given that $5 million is not that much in the heavy industry game, I'd like to know why they couldn't get the bridge loans. Like, that's not an unreasonable size of loan for a regional expansion for medium-sized businesses; there should be some sort of lender interested in doing that for them.

I suspect some shenanigans from investors. The bankruptcy also was handled in an unusual manner, not through a regular liquidation.
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