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Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

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Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#51

Post by ACCount37 »

amelius wrote: post #48
ACCount37 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't intended to be available frankly. You either buy them as camera modules, smartphone type or IP camera type, or don't at all. A part of it is just how involved the manufacturing of those camera modules is. The sensor chips ships as bare silicon dies. They're precisely placed, glued and wire bonded to the substrate PCB, then adorned with a focus/OIS voice coil frame and a lens assembly. Absolutely nothing a…

Ok, how would you buy them if you were a small company making e.g. scientific instruments?

You wouldn't!

You'd buy instead an "industrial/automation/automotive" sensor - one that has a fraction of the raw resolution, but maybe spots some other perks. Like a global shutter with no rolling shutter distortions, a "no RGGB Bayer" option that lets you set up your own filters and pick what wavelengths you care about, a package that's amenable to low volume manufacturing, longevity guarantees, availability in quantities of tens instead of tens of thousands, or actual documentation that you can get without 3-6 months of salesman and lawyer negotiations.

Or you'd buy a ready-made "scientific instrument" camera from someone else. Which probably has another "industrial" sensor - maybe worse, maybe better than one you could get directly, depending on how up to date the catalog is and how good of a working relationship does the instrument company have with the sensor vendors. And a price tag in 4-5 digits range. Then you would integrate that thing as a subsystem into whatever science hardware you wanted to make.

But if you truly want the "flagship smartphone" mix of small sensor size, low cost and high resolution? There are no good options! Clearly, the tech just hasn't advanced far enough for that!

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#52

Post by stymaar »

microtonal wrote: post #50
stymaar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “only for pedo and spies” quote is still wrong no matter how you twist it, as illustrated above.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Let's end it here. People can look up the source material and make their own judgment.

When someone says “features that are clearly valuable for executives and others” you can't claim he said it's “just for pedo and spies”, even he also said it'd also be useful for pedo and spies.

That's just plain bad faith.

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#55

Post by 1970-01-01 »

prmoustache wrote: post #54
1970-01-01 wrote: post #53

[flagged]

Really bad attempt at trolling. Linux works on the fairphone. Just with proprietary and non-mainlined firmwares.

The phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind. So what happened here? Shouldn't there be at minimum a framework for making a camera driver? Nope. They're gluing everything together and hoping it works.. Again. This is not standing on the shoulders of those that came before. It's the same issues year over year over year. It isn't trolling, it is calling out the highly non-optimal, "reinvent the wheel using these bits we have lying around" situation for getting things working.

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#56

Post by amelius »

ACCount37 wrote: post #51
amelius wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, how would you buy them if you were a small company making e.g. scientific instruments?

You wouldn't! You'd buy instead an "industrial/automation/automotive" sensor - one that has a fraction of the raw resolution, but maybe spots some other perks. Like a global shutter with no rolling shutter distortions, a "no RGGB Bayer" option that lets you set up your own filters and pick what wavelengths you care about, a package that's amenable to low volume manufacturing, longevity guarantees, availability in qua…

Then how do you explain that Digikey still sells many camera sensors.

For example this one:

https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus...

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#57

Post by microtonal »

inigyou wrote: post #46
microtonal wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone 6 does not fulfill the hardware requirements (secure enclave, MTE, etc.), nor software requirements (monthly firmware updates, etc.). So there is nothing that GrapheneOS can do at this point. The ball is in Fairphone's court if they want this, but Fairphone seems more interested to cooperate with /e/OS, whose CEO proclaims security hardening is for pedophiles and spies (thereby fueling the narratives that s…

At this point in time any open source phone is a great improvement. Theoretically, we can add the security features ourselves.

Depends what you mean by open source phone, do you mean open hardware? If not, you cannot retroactively add MTE or a secure enclave. Even if it was open hardware, it is kinda hard to do small production runs.

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#58

Post by microtonal »

stymaar wrote: post #52
microtonal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Let's end it here. People can look up the source material and make their own judgment.

When someone says “features that are clearly valuable for executives and others” you can't claim he said it's “ just for pedo and spies”, even he also said it'd also be useful for pedo and spies. That's just plain bad faith.

The quote Par contre, on a pas une approche "sécurité durcie", on développe pas un téléphone pour les pédo(bip) pour qu'ils puissent échapper à la justice. is literally in the linked video. I encourage everyone who does not speak French to put it in their favorite translator. He literally says However, we do not have a hardened security approach, we are not developing a phone for pedophiles so that they can escape justice.

It is very clear what he is implying here, namely what I said in my original message.

He has repeatedly done so in various publications. E.g.:

https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie...

Mais surtout, il ne faut pas se tromper de combat : /e/OS permet à ses utilisateurs d’échapper à la collecte massive de données personnelles qui s’opère dans les smartphones du marché, pas d’aider les pédocriminels à passer sous les radars de la justice.

Translation:

But above all, we must not fight the wrong battle: /e/OS allows its users to escape the massive collection of personal data that takes place in smartphones on the market, not to help pedophiles to slip under the radar of justice.

He repeatedly implicaties that only sex offenders need a security-hardened phone.

If we wasn't trying to throw a shade at GrapheneOS and other more secure systems, why does he continuously associate device security with pedophiles?

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#59

Post by microtonal »

izacus wrote: post #24
microtonal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have anything to do with GrapheneOS (only using it on a phone), but the security of Fairphone is not great, like many other Android phones it does not have a separate secure enclave to store secrets, but instead relies on a TrustZone-based TEE, which is often vulnerable to side-channel attacks (e.g. see the recent attack where a lot of MediaTek phones could be decrypted in seconds, even in BFU). Note: iPhone…

They're also pretty behind on major OS updates and even bug fixes last I've checked. The software story was very disappointing when I wanted to get one.

Yep. I was interested in more sovereignty and degoogling to some extend. So I got a Fairphone 6 with /e/OS. It was only until I dug a bit deeper into the OS image and the microG source code that I found worrying things:

- Old kernel versions with many known CVEs (applies to both stock an /e/OS).

- Old firmware bundles with many known CVEs (applies to both stock an /e/OS).

- Old major Android version, so missing fixes for vulnerabilities not marked high/critical (applies to both stock an /e/OS).

- Chinese firmware blobs, TCL image processing firmware (applies to both stock an /e/OS).

- When using the App Lounge, F-Droid installs go through a proxy (CleanAPK), that Murena does not want to reveal the purpose or owner of. Given Android's trust on first use policy, this could be used to intercept installs and install malicious packages. (/e/OS)

- Runs microG privileged. When an app does Google Play Integrity checks, Google's obfuscated DroidGuard blobs run privileged (/e/OS).

- Runs many Google apps (e.g. Google Maps) with higher privileges (/e/OS).

Re: Fairphone 6 wide camera experimental Linux support

#60

Post by [deleted] »

warrantisall wrote: post #26
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different priorities. GrapheneOS prioritizes very strong security (inside a very specific model that includes treating the user as an attack vector to be protected against). Fairphone prioritizes repairable hardware (and actually makes their own hardware). On a finite budget (of both money and time and people), prioritizing either one of these will undermine the other.

[flagged]

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