Everything is my fault • Hacker News Board

Re: Everything is my fault

#51

Post by skybrian » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 9:42 PM UTC

bpatrianakos wrote: post #45

This is not a good thing. In the context of the article it seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. Yes, it's good to take responsibility and people don't do it as often as they should but to take on the mentality that everything is your fault is unhealthy. In this context it looks like it stems from a need to be powerful and in control all the time. The truth is, we can only control efforts, not outco…

Natural disasters aren't a great example, because we can and should prepare for them. As the saying goes, "earthquakes don't kill people, buildings do."

Re: Everything is my fault

#52

Post by graeme » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 9:52 PM UTC

For those who note that this is not literally true, here's the weaker version that's both true and useful:

'What could I have done to make the situation better?'

Almost all situations are influenceable.

Re: Everything is my fault

#53

Post by ivosaurus » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 9:57 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #33

llambda wrote: post #11

No, it's not your fault. And this is just a mechanism of deflection. Step back from your solipsistic convictions for five minutes and realize that your rationalizations here only serve the purpose of avoiding forgiveness. You have decided that not only are you not a victim but in fact you and you alone are responsible for everything and therefore you don't ever need to forgive anyone. Moreover you have now implicitly…

You can still forgive anyone, including yourself (sometimes the hardest). I think the point of the exercise though is to concentrate on what you can do to fix it or prevent it from happening next time, not on wrongs done to you by others - real or imaginary, where you can not fix it and only thing you can do is feel bad about other people. Let's get the $9000 example. If you were cheated out of $9000, you can stop at…

Yep. A hell of a lot of commenters here seem to think the OP is simply about taking up an unhealthy mindset on your worldview of events.

But it's not about the initial worldview (i.e the title of the post), but how it enables you to view things, and act on them, in consequence.

Striving to take more action on the things you care about is practically never a bad things, and that's what Derek is wanting to achieve, not single-handedly shoulder the entire world's problems by claiming himself the sole contributor of all of its events.

Re: Everything is my fault

#54

Post by ivosaurus » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:03 PM UTC

bpatrianakos wrote: post #45

This is not a good thing. In the context of the article it seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. Yes, it's good to take responsibility and people don't do it as often as they should but to take on the mentality that everything is your fault is unhealthy. In this context it looks like it stems from a need to be powerful and in control all the time. The truth is, we can only control efforts, not outco…

The mindset isn't simply about seeing yourself as the sole cause of all your problems, and going crazy there after.

That's the literal view of Derek's post, and it's completely naive one.

The opposite view is just as unhealthy - seeing yourself as the constant victim; it will equally get you nowhere. Civers is not a dumb enough guy to advocate either of these extremes.

It's about creating a mindset that enables you take to take more action in dealing with your own problems. Expanding your own view of your sphere of influence to its maximum potential.

TL;DR - the view isn't solely about anyone's fault, or some strategy of how to dole out blame; it's about maximising your own ability to make a difference.

Re: Everything is my fault

#55

Post by yason » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:26 PM UTC

This is way better than forgiving. When you forgive, you’re still playing the victim, and they’re still wrong, but you’re charitably pardoning their horrible deeds.

That's NOT forgiving. That's playing the victim, them being wrong and charitably pardoning their horrible deeds mumbojumbo. "And then they bitterly stabbed each other again..."

Forgiving means deciding to let go of what has happened; letting go as in not letting what has happened influence your future life and decisions, and forgiving starts from yourself. The act of forgiveness is to free yourself from the past events. It goes like first realizing that past is past, you can't change it and nobody else can change it either, and that ultimately the suffering seeps not from what had happened but from the way how you still take it, and eventually realizing that generally you're just so much better off not thinking about it anymore, regardless of if you win or lose the corresponding power struggle inside of your head.

When you've already removed yourself from any emotional entanglements it's basically a no-op to forgive someone else because at that point you no longer care about what s/he has done. It's good to forgive others to encourage them to let it go but it's not necessarily for your own recovery.

Re: Everything is my fault

#56

Post by jrs235 » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:33 PM UTC

pestaa wrote: post #7

"Everything is my fault" is entrepreneurs' wishful thinking so that they can believe they can fix whatever situation they're in. However, not everything is under their control, no matter how hard they try to believe. You don't control the weather, the people in the streets, the companies sending you checks, the currency exchange rates, etc.

We can't control everything, but we can control or reactions. I believe that is what Derek is trying to get across, even if he didn't quite state that outright.

I'm reading Quality Software Management Volume 1 Systems Thinking by Gerald M. Weinberg. Page 111' 7.3 It's not the event that counts, it's your reaction to the event... Whenever there is a [i]human decision point[/i] in the system, it's not the event that determines the next event, but someone's reaction to the event.

Re: Everything is my fault

#57

Post by bpatrianakos » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:45 PM UTC

ivosaurus wrote: post #54

bpatrianakos wrote: post #45

This is not a good thing. In the context of the article it seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. Yes, it's good to take responsibility and people don't do it as often as they should but to take on the mentality that everything is your fault is unhealthy. In this context it looks like it stems from a need to be powerful and in control all the time. The truth is, we can only control efforts, not outco…

The mindset isn't simply about seeing yourself as the sole cause of all your problems, and going crazy there after. That's the literal view of Derek's post, and it's completely naive one. The opposite view is just as unhealthy - seeing yourself as the constant victim; it will equally get you nowhere. Civers is not a dumb enough guy to advocate either of these extremes. It's about creating a mindset that enables you t…

I can agree with you, and the text supports your argument when he says:

"It's one of those base rules like “people mean well” that's more fun to believe, and have a few exceptions, than to not believe at all."

That part makes it seem alright but the way he talks about power and choosing this over forgiveness and the emphasis he places on having power as well as the importance he places on thinking of a situation in such a way that it avoids the realities of disappointment make it seem like its coming from an unhealthy place.

It's almost as if he's saying "I've found a way to avoid feeling bad about any negative thing that's out of my control" rather than what you're saying he means which would be something like "if you think of everything as being in your control then you'll find you actually do have more power over certain things than you think".

You can take either from this piece and I don't think it's naive at all to find an unhealthy attitude in this. It is very likely that he meant it in the way you say and that part I quoted backs that up. However, besides that one line, his tone and everything else he says in this piece comes off to me as someone training themselves to be avoidant in such a way that it can be construed as a virtue.

Re: Everything is my fault

#58

Post by zobzu » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:47 PM UTC

The only drawback i personally see is in fact that, when you realize that "everything is your fault" ie, that you can influence things, people around you to obtain the desired result, is in fact manipulation.

And I don't like manipulating people. Yes, it's a lot easier. yes, leaders do that non-stop. But personally I can't get around to doing that.

Also, if everyone was doing it, we'd probably play a much higher level of "manipulation game" and feel fake about everything we do.

Re: Everything is my fault

#59

Post by bpatrianakos » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:51 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #51

bpatrianakos wrote: post #45

This is not a good thing. In the context of the article it seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. Yes, it's good to take responsibility and people don't do it as often as they should but to take on the mentality that everything is your fault is unhealthy. In this context it looks like it stems from a need to be powerful and in control all the time. The truth is, we can only control efforts, not outco…

Natural disasters aren't a great example, because we can and should prepare for them. As the saying goes, "earthquakes don't kill people, buildings do."

Natural disasters are a perfect example! You can plan and prepare all you like but in the end there are no guarantees that your planning and preparation will protect you. So if a natural disaster did happen and for the sake of argument you did everything within your power to prepare and did it perfectly yet still had something awful happen, is it your fault?

Consider too that natural disasters are not central to any number of locations. They can happen anywhere, any time, and come in any number of forms. You're not safe anywhere from them. That's why it's a perfect example. Because its something all people are prone to and that no amount of preparation can guarantee you safety from.

Re: Everything is my fault

#60

Post by haroldp » Sun, Dec 09, 2012, 10:57 PM UTC

This is my philosophy as a sysadmin: Everything is my fault, and the direct result of my ignorance. If you believe this, then the solution to all sysadmin problems becomes obvious.