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Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

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Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#51

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

mjg59 wrote: post #50
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no inherent reason that pregnancy should result in women spending less time at work than men, and Danish parental leave laws mean that it's possible for a father to spend more time on 100% paid leave than a mother. The risk to employers is a consequence of local laws and social norms, not an absolute. It's not the time that matters, it's the timing. You can't legally (and you should not) force a pregnant wo…

And in Denmark, you have no control over when a father might take paternity leave. This basic economic truth you're asserting is a product of society, not a product of biology. >Not all gender inequality is sexism. True, just the vast majority of it. But next time women complain that they're being underpaid, do remind them of the lucrative opportunities that await them in the growing field of "People better able to t…

> And in Denmark, you have no control over when a father might take paternity leave. This basic economic truth you're asserting is a product of society, not a product of biology.

And even in Denmark there are days where the mother is not allowed to work for the benefit of the child. And that is a product of biology.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#52

Post by pretoriusB »

Sanddancer wrote: post #40
pretoriusB wrote: post #36

Another strike against free speech for the PC police.

You have every right to speak like a knuckle-dragging troglodyte. The PyCon folks also have every right to say for you to do it somewhere other than their private convention space.

Well, if George Carlin was a python developer, I for one, would have loved to see him speak.

And I have no problem with how Linus talks, without concern for self-censorship.

Funny how we owe a large of the success of open source (and most of Linux) to a "knuckle-dragging troglodyte"...

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#53

Post by mjg59 »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #51
mjg59 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in Denmark, you have no control over when a father might take paternity leave. This basic economic truth you're asserting is a product of society, not a product of biology. >Not all gender inequality is sexism. True, just the vast majority of it. But next time women complain that they're being underpaid, do remind them of the lucrative opportunities that await them in the growing field of "People better able to t…

> And in Denmark, you have no control over when a father might take paternity leave. This basic economic truth you're asserting is a product of society, not a product of biology. And even in Denmark there are days where the mother is not allowed to work for the benefit of the child. And that is a product of biology.

How does that matter to an employer? The father can take exactly the same time off. Employing a man with a pregnant partner could be exactly as inconvenient as employing a pregnant woman.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#54

Post by chernevik »

jnoller wrote: post #34
mrtron wrote: post #30

This feels like a "Caution this beverage is hot" label on a coffee cup. Shouldn't it be obvious to not act like a jerk at a Python event?

Quoting myself http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct (recursion depth exceeded): BUT EVERYONE IS NICE, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN COOL I know. Honestly, I do. Except for minor incident that I recall, PyCon US has largely been free of issues such as this. Every meetup, conference, etc I have been to has been filled with nice, kind people and largely jerk-free. This is a testament to the community as a whole…

There is no problem but people are not to be trusted so we need a Rule.

What could go wrong?

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#55

Post by japhyr »

jnoller wrote: post #2

Fwiw, I'm not the chairman of the PSF, just one of a handful of directors. Van Lindberg is chairman. I am however chair for PyCon and I am responsible for pushing this through.

I teach high school math and science, and I throw in as much programming-related content as I can, such as teaching intro to python units whenever I get the chance. None of my students fit the model of a traditional young programmer. No one in my small town is a professional programmer, so none of my students ever see or hear of anyone doing high-level technical work. But many of them love programming once they get a feel for it.

The culture of pycon is entirely welcoming to my students. I won't be able to take students this year, because the travel costs from southeast Alaska are pretty steep. But I have shared with my students the specific ways that the python community supports different groups of non-traditional programmers: pycon policies, pyladies, the Boston Python Workshop initiatives, etc.

Knowing there are specific efforts to support non-traditional programmers makes my students much more open to considering a career in a technical field. The work that Jesse and others are doing is having a significant impact on a large number of people. It's an iceberg, as well; whatever visible impact you see, there are 10 times as many people benefiting from this work.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#56

Post by jnoller »

japhyr wrote: post #55
jnoller wrote: post #2

Fwiw, I'm not the chairman of the PSF, just one of a handful of directors. Van Lindberg is chairman. I am however chair for PyCon and I am responsible for pushing this through.

I teach high school math and science, and I throw in as much programming-related content as I can, such as teaching intro to python units whenever I get the chance. None of my students fit the model of a traditional young programmer. No one in my small town is a professional programmer, so none of my students ever see or hear of anyone doing high-level technical work. But many of them love programming once they get a…

Thank you - an an Alaska (Wasilla/Palmer) expat, the work you're doing sounds great. And thank you for the support. let me know what else we can do.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#57

Post by mrtron »

jnoller wrote: post #34
mrtron wrote: post #30

This feels like a "Caution this beverage is hot" label on a coffee cup. Shouldn't it be obvious to not act like a jerk at a Python event?

Quoting myself http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct (recursion depth exceeded): BUT EVERYONE IS NICE, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN COOL I know. Honestly, I do. Except for minor incident that I recall, PyCon US has largely been free of issues such as this. Every meetup, conference, etc I have been to has been filled with nice, kind people and largely jerk-free. This is a testament to the community as a whole…

I completely understand the spot you are in and can see how you are rationalizing it. The policy approach just doesn't fit for me (nor does it need to). I only commented because I do care about the Python community and hope to attend this event.

When I read the article I can't help substituting "label on cup" and reading incident as a coffee burn.]

Seeing "we now have an anti-harassment policy!" followed up by "and women are specifically encouraged to attend and apply." makes me cringe.

It doesn't feel like the way to encourage my wife (engineer) or any of the numerous women I have developed software with that the conference is an awesome event.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#58

Post by jnoller »

mrtron wrote: post #57
jnoller wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting myself http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct (recursion depth exceeded): BUT EVERYONE IS NICE, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN COOL I know. Honestly, I do. Except for minor incident that I recall, PyCon US has largely been free of issues such as this. Every meetup, conference, etc I have been to has been filled with nice, kind people and largely jerk-free. This is a testament to the community as a whole…

I completely understand the spot you are in and can see how you are rationalizing it. The policy approach just doesn't fit for me (nor does it need to). I only commented because I do care about the Python community and hope to attend this event. When I read the article I can't help substituting "label on cup" and reading incident as a coffee burn.] Seeing "we now have an anti-harassment policy!" followed up by "and w…

The numbers disagree with you assertion(s) - we have increased sponsorship due to the actions taken, we have increased the number of female presenters/speakers, and we have an astounding number of thank you's from women within the community with regards to the actions taken and statements made.

I am not "in a spot" or "rationalizing it" - I have concrete proof that changes like this in combination with a massive amount of outreach has had an extremely positive effect for the community and conference.

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#59

Post by LeafStorm »

pretoriusB wrote: post #52
Sanddancer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have every right to speak like a knuckle-dragging troglodyte. The PyCon folks also have every right to say for you to do it somewhere other than their private convention space.

Well, if George Carlin was a python developer, I for one, would have loved to see him speak. And I have no problem with how Linus talks, without concern for self-censorship. Funny how we owe a large of the success of open source (and most of Linux) to a "knuckle-dragging troglodyte"...

Linus may be known for his usage of four-letter words, but the code of conduct isn't (primarily) about profanity. It's about sexism and harassment, and I haven't known Linus to participate in or condone either.

(Another tangential point about Linus and language: he is very good at targeting his profanity. He doesn't drop f-bombs every third sentence, he saves them for when they are most effective. I don't think "knuckle-dragging troglodyte" quite applies.)

Re: Python Software Foundation will require code of conduct at all sponsored events

#60

Post by Sanddancer »

pretoriusB wrote: post #52
Sanddancer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have every right to speak like a knuckle-dragging troglodyte. The PyCon folks also have every right to say for you to do it somewhere other than their private convention space.

Well, if George Carlin was a python developer, I for one, would have loved to see him speak. And I have no problem with how Linus talks, without concern for self-censorship. Funny how we owe a large of the success of open source (and most of Linux) to a "knuckle-dragging troglodyte"...

This isn't about getting rid of the George Carlins of the python scene, this is about getting rid of the Morton Downey Jrs of the tech scene. Being a bit blue is a lot different than using degrading, insulting, and irrelevant images in your talks. Codes of conduct like these aren't about stripping away all four letter words, they're about getting rid of presentations like "perform like a porn star," which only serve to detract from the larger scene and message.
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