M 3.9 Experimental Explosion – 147 Km ENE of Ponce Inlet, Florida • Hacker News Board

Re: M 3.9 Experimental Explosion – 147 Km ENE of Ponce Inlet, Florida

#51

Post by andai » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 6:19 AM UTC

vitalyan8184 wrote: post #31

andai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's kinda whataboutism, but I made a similar comment on a video about an environmental crime (a copper mine had dumped an entire lake's worth of toxic sludge into a valley). The author of the mini documentary said something about how deeply disturbed he was and how he really thought humans were better than this. I thought that was kind of funny since, yeah the sludge lake is nasty as hell (and if the dam holdin…

in civilized countries, industrially farmed animals live short, uneventful lives devoid of hunger and pain, injury and disease, heat and cold, then die instant, painless deaths. in the wild, the kind of animals we farm rarely get to die of old age - most end up being mauled and eaten alive by predators. their lives are only bad if you assume they possess adult human level of conscience, which they obviously don't.

Did you see those videos where factory workers are kicking piglets and things like that? Apparently those jobs attract a very certain type of individual.

Good thing you're totally sure they don't have consciousness though. The alternative would be a bit unpleasant I imagine.

Re: M 3.9 Experimental Explosion – 147 Km ENE of Ponce Inlet, Florida

#52

Post by andai » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 6:23 AM UTC

vitalyan8184 wrote: post #45

psini wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how narrow your definition of "civilized country" is, but a majority of industrially farmed animals do not live the kind of lives you describe. I will link the EU regulation for laying hens for exemple, and maybe it will change your mind as to how farmed animals are treated? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... A few numbers I personally find telling: - 550 cm² caged area per h…

again, you're ascribing human level of consciousness to much simpler creatures driven primarily by instinct. and you are aware that even humans, with our much longer lifespan and much higher cognition, can endure living in captivity for years just fine, right? hell, even outside of captivity, a double digit percentage of us doesn't have a single room of living space, and the only outside most of us see is covered wit…

Your logic implies that intellectually impaired people also don't experience pain or pleasure.

I do imagine they experience a lesser degree of psychological suffering, of the kind created by mental processes, if some of those processes are absent. But the basic pain of the type experienced by a being who is caged and killed, that's just physical.

I've sometimes heard the words pain and suffering used to separate these two types out. If you accidentally hit your toe on the table, that's pain. If you then call yourself an idiot for doing that, that's suffering. But that's not a very mainstream use of the word, I just just don't know better one for it. I think "physical suffering" and "psychological suffering" are more helpful.

Anyway my point is, that as far as we can tell we're on the same pages animals as far as physical suffering goes.

Re: M 3.9 Experimental Explosion – 147 Km ENE of Ponce Inlet, Florida

#53

Post by andai » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 6:27 AM UTC

nialse wrote: post #24

andai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's kinda whataboutism, but I made a similar comment on a video about an environmental crime (a copper mine had dumped an entire lake's worth of toxic sludge into a valley). The author of the mini documentary said something about how deeply disturbed he was and how he really thought humans were better than this. I thought that was kind of funny since, yeah the sludge lake is nasty as hell (and if the dam holdin…

The issue associated with whataboutism is that it is a deflection strategy. It aims to steer the focus away from the issue at hand. Commonly regarded as intentional manipulation or lack of adherence to social conversation norms.

Yeah Whataboutism is typically used to diminish the severity of the original issue being responded to.

I'm not sure if that's exactly the right word here, i.e. in my example earlier I'm obviously not defending lakes of toxic sludge. I just thought it was remarkable that someone claimed a lake of sludge was the most morally devastating thing they'd ever encountered, on this planet, where the mere act of making a sandwich typically involves a far more horrifying causal chain (e.g. the animals lived in darkness, in a cage so small they couldn't even turn around).

Maybe there's a better word for that? Putting things into perspective? I don't know.

Re: M 3.9 Experimental Explosion – 147 Km ENE of Ponce Inlet, Florida

#54

Post by vitalyan8184 » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:32 AM UTC

andai wrote: post #51

vitalyan8184 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in civilized countries, industrially farmed animals live short, uneventful lives devoid of hunger and pain, injury and disease, heat and cold, then die instant, painless deaths. in the wild, the kind of animals we farm rarely get to die of old age - most end up being mauled and eaten alive by predators. their lives are only bad if you assume they possess adult human level of conscience, which they obviously don't.

Did you see those videos where factory workers are kicking piglets and things like that? Apparently those jobs attract a very certain type of individual. Good thing you're totally sure they don't have consciousness though. The alternative would be a bit unpleasant I imagine.

they have some consciousness, but again, not as much as a human. and again, most of humans lived in similarly abhorrent conditions throughout most of the history.