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House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

cnn.com

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Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#51

Post by slowin »

_--__--__ wrote: post #49
slowin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those people are optimizing for money, "prestige" or something other than having a healthy schedule. We definitely should not dictate the entire country's sleep around west coast financiers.

But we're cool with this bill pushed by people whose primary concern is more tee times in Florida in January? I lived most of my life in a place that already has days with post 8AM winter sunrises on Standard time and can only really get up with the sun. Permanent DST forces many people to start their day long before sunrise and somehow I'm supposed to believe that's the 'good for sleep' option.

Yep, we're cool with it because changing the clocks twice a year is ridiculous. People should live in an environment they're comfortable in. We should also push for a culture of not having to wake up at absolutely insane times in the morning. Like I said in another comment, this is a huge opportunity for many people to WFH and just ditch the commute. Positive changes all around.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#52

Post by al_borland »

saulpw wrote: post #23
al_borland wrote: post #21

I think saying on one time is better than switching back and forth, but we should really stick to Standard time. I know people like it to be light out later in the evenings, but they tried this before in the 1970s and it didn't last long[0]. It turns out not only do people not like it to be dark late into the morning, but it also makes it unsafe for kids going to school. Looking at sunrise and sunset times[1], people…

I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching, but we switch because no matter which time standard we choose, some group of people takes issue. The only way we can get one time standard is if we all let go of our highest preference and allow the second-best thing to succeed. Otherwise we'll be doomed to third-best (devolving into worst--see Indiana and Arizona and all the other carveouts…

> I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching

I’m not the problem, we agree. That’s the first thing I said in my post (thought I realize now I had a typo… “saying” = “staying”).

My concern is that if we choose a new standard that was already shown to be problematic when implemented previously, that we’ll end up reverting back in 2 years. Then it will be another 50 years before we try again.

If we go to daylight time and stick with it, I’m still happy. I just worry that people are so focused on that evening sun that they are forgetting where that time comes from and some of the issues that come with it.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#53

Post by al_borland »

quantified wrote: post #34
al_borland wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DST was never about farmers, it was to conserve energy for the war effort. Farmers also aren't punching a clock at an office. They can start and end work when they want, based on the weather and daylight that suits the work.

If you have animals you are up with the sun, nothing about when you want to work.

The “went you want” part was more about in relation to the clock. The sun will rise and fall just the same regardless of how we set our clocks. The farmers are completely unaffected. Their days don’t shift just because the time shifts.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#54

Post by kayfox »

xenadu02 wrote: post #43
al_borland wrote: post #21

I think saying on one time is better than switching back and forth, but we should really stick to Standard time. I know people like it to be light out later in the evenings, but they tried this before in the 1970s and it didn't last long[0]. It turns out not only do people not like it to be dark late into the morning, but it also makes it unsafe for kids going to school. Looking at sunrise and sunset times[1], people…

Well studies show that early school start times are bad for kids anyway so schools should fix their schedules. Kids also naturally like to stay up later these days so more daylight would better match that rather than keeping awake with artificial light. I also dispute that site's claim that everyone starts before 8am. Here on the west coast I'd say most jobs start at 9am unless they are retail. A lot of schools have…

> Here on the west coast I'd say most jobs start at 9am

If you work on things for banks, financial markets or the federal government, you may be starting as early as 5~6am on the west coast.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#55

Post by kayfox »

al_borland wrote: post #16
gepeake wrote: post #11

> But detractors say it could have economic consequences, particularly for farmers who would have to wrestle with later sunrises. I genuinely don't understand the "farmer's like DST" argument. Farmer's schedules are dictated by the sun not the time and the sun changes continuously year round. If the argument is about commercial coordination that follows the same logic of being difficult regardless given constantly sh…

DST was never about farmers, it was to conserve energy for the war effort. Farmers also aren't punching a clock at an office. They can start and end work when they want, based on the weather and daylight that suits the work.

I grew up in rural Oregon, if there was rain forecasted and the farmer was in the middle of a alfalfa or wheat harvest, they would be up in the middle of the night with a combine or bailer to get the harvest done before it gets soaked and potentially destroyed.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#56

Post by saulpw »

al_borland wrote: post #52
saulpw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching, but we switch because no matter which time standard we choose, some group of people takes issue. The only way we can get one time standard is if we all let go of our highest preference and allow the second-best thing to succeed. Otherwise we'll be doomed to third-best (devolving into worst--see Indiana and Arizona and all the other carveouts…

> I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching I’m not the problem, we agree. That’s the first thing I said in my post (thought I realize now I had a typo… “saying” = “staying”). My concern is that if we choose a new standard that was already shown to be problematic when implemented previously, that we’ll end up reverting back in 2 years. Then it will be another 50 years before we try a…

Okay, well said. Maybe we should try one year of each and then put it to a popular vote.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#57

Post by matthewowen »

This is a bad change.

I think it’s bad for kids to have to walk to school before sunrise.

Fundamentally it is useful to have more sunlight later in the evenings in the summer. It’s also useful to have sunlight early enough in the morning for conventional “start of day” times.

Changing the clocks meets these. Yes, time is arbitrary and throughout the year we could collectively change the times we do things at to better match daylight hours but this is obviously much worse and harder to coordinate than changing the time for everyone all together’

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#58

Post by vlian2088 »

al_borland wrote: post #21

I think saying on one time is better than switching back and forth, but we should really stick to Standard time. I know people like it to be light out later in the evenings, but they tried this before in the 1970s and it didn't last long[0]. It turns out not only do people not like it to be dark late into the morning, but it also makes it unsafe for kids going to school. Looking at sunrise and sunset times[1], people…

the solution has always been adjusting the school/business hours as seen fit, not adjusting the clocks.

DST is one of those things our descendants will be baffled by the sheer stupidity of.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#59

Post by matthewowen »

marssaxman wrote: post #38
Jtsummers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for permanent daylight savings (versus permanent standard) is to provide for later sunsets in the winter. By clock time, the sun would be rising later (after 8am in many places) but setting later as well giving people some late afternoon or evening sun. Which is better is ultimately subjective, you get short days in the winter regardless when you live far enough north. The late sunrise can be more dangerou…

I do live far enough north, which is probably part of the reason "daylight savings" strikes me as a bit silly: no arrangement of clocks can work around the fact that there's not enough sunlight for all we want to do in a winter day. Both getting up before dawn and leaving work after sunset are undesirable, but during midwinter you can't avoid either one. I figure you might as well just learn to deal with the darkness…

The “savings” in “daylight savings” doesn’t refer to the winter part of the schedule. It refers to the summer part, where daylight that occurs during typical “sleeping” hours is “saved” by shifting the clocks so it occurs in the evening instead.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#60

Post by dimes »

vlian2088 wrote: post #58
al_borland wrote: post #21

I think saying on one time is better than switching back and forth, but we should really stick to Standard time. I know people like it to be light out later in the evenings, but they tried this before in the 1970s and it didn't last long[0]. It turns out not only do people not like it to be dark late into the morning, but it also makes it unsafe for kids going to school. Looking at sunrise and sunset times[1], people…

the solution has always been adjusting the school/business hours as seen fit, not adjusting the clocks. DST is one of those things our descendants will be baffled by the sheer stupidity of.

Couldn’t you say the same thing about time zones? Why adjust the clock when you can adjust all aspects of society instead?
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