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StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

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Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#51

Post by rtpg »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #7

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

If reselling is allowed a market is created, pushing up prices. But that extra money doesn't go towards anyone involved in the creation of the product! It goes towards scalpers. Though there's a bit of price discovery value....

Without reselling scalpers have no reason to scoop up the tickets.

So if you prevent reselling... then concertgoers just have to do a lottery or something for the scarce resource and people who aren't interested in the concert have no reason to buy the tickets! Just a better experience for everyone except for the scalpers and I guess Taylor Swift cuz she won't know the price ceiling for tickets.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#52

Post by mathattack »

brookst wrote: post #43
Analemma_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.

How do performers benefit from scalping?

The price tickets sell for will be higher if scalping exists. Demand increases for 2 reasons:

1 - I’m more likely to buy a ticket or pay a higher price if there’s a chance of turning a profit if I can’t go.

2 - Speculators are more likely to buy unused inventory if they can turn a profit. This increases total tickets sold. (Scalpers get paid for taking risk)

I’m not defending this. I’ve given up on concerts for my favorite larger bands due to sticker shock.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#54

Post by ozgrakkurt »

bawolff wrote: post #25
Brendinooo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? If you bought all of the food then offered the food at 10x the prices, we'd be outraged with you, yes. Stakes are lower because it's a luxury good, not food, but it's the same idea.

There is a reason this doesn't work in general though. If you bought up all the food, farmers would raise prices until either you couldn't afford to do that anymore or eventually there is a splurge of new farmers taking advantage of all your free money until you run out of money. It could maybe work in times of famine where the government introduces price controls or rationing; it does not work in normal times. For b…

I really doubt you can’t buy the whole harvest of a farmer if you pay for the whole thing. You can probably buy it for less than normal

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#55

Post by brookst »

Brendinooo wrote: post #47
brookst wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is all demand-based pricing rent-seeking? Like selling gold or a house or any other scarce good for more than you paid?

I think that if you poke at the term "rent-seeking" with the definition of "middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions", you'll just end up arguing about what "adding economic value" means. That said...if you can do that, you'll probably find that some additions of economic value are far more defensible than others, so it shouldn't all be flattened in the manner you're suggesting. I…

Yeah. “Rent-seeking” is just a fancy rhetorical term for “people doing things I don’t like with money”.

Subscriptions are rent-seeking. Loans are rent-seeking. Spending millions in capital to buy a building and renting apartments for thousands? Rent-seeking. Copyright and patents, for sure, unless an AI company is involved in which case copyright is noble and must last a thousand years, because AI companies are rent-seeking.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#56

Post by brookst »

mathattack wrote: post #52
brookst wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do performers benefit from scalping?

The price tickets sell for will be higher if scalping exists. Demand increases for 2 reasons: 1 - I’m more likely to buy a ticket or pay a higher price if there’s a chance of turning a profit if I can’t go. 2 - Speculators are more likely to buy unused inventory if they can turn a profit. This increases total tickets sold. (Scalpers get paid for taking risk) I’m not defending this. I’ve given up on concerts for my fa…

All of your points apply to performers who may not sell out, so scalpers take risk, you may buy more, speculators may soak up what would go unused.

But consider Ms. Swift. All of her shows sell out, period. Face value tickets are maybe $400 max, and resell for $2000+. I don’t think she sees any benefit from scalpers. Ditto any performer that is in very high demand and certain to sell out and have unmet demand.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#57

Post by CuriouslyC »

rtpg wrote: post #51
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #7

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

If reselling is allowed a market is created, pushing up prices. But that extra money doesn't go towards anyone involved in the creation of the product! It goes towards scalpers. Though there's a bit of price discovery value.... Without reselling scalpers have no reason to scoop up the tickets. So if you prevent reselling... then concertgoers just have to do a lottery or something for the scarce resource and people wh…

A lottery is the only fair option. Market pricing is exactly as fair as capitalism in general.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#58

Post by dataflow »

brookst wrote: post #56
mathattack wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price tickets sell for will be higher if scalping exists. Demand increases for 2 reasons: 1 - I’m more likely to buy a ticket or pay a higher price if there’s a chance of turning a profit if I can’t go. 2 - Speculators are more likely to buy unused inventory if they can turn a profit. This increases total tickets sold. (Scalpers get paid for taking risk) I’m not defending this. I’ve given up on concerts for my fa…

All of your points apply to performers who may not sell out, so scalpers take risk, you may buy more, speculators may soak up what would go unused. But consider Ms. Swift. All of her shows sell out, period. Face value tickets are maybe $400 max, and resell for $2000+. I don’t think she sees any benefit from scalpers. Ditto any performer that is in very high demand and certain to sell out and have unmet demand.

> I don’t think she sees any benefit from scalpers.

If a ticket sells for $2k then the platform gets some massive portion of that (like $400?) - are you sure some of that doesn't make its way back to the artist, at least on the primary sale platform? I would be rather surprised if it didn't.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#59

Post by dataflow »

TZubiri wrote: post #40
dclaw wrote: post #20

End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

Not a lawyer but here's how it works: Illegal usually means there's a law forbidding it. Tickets are usually governed by the Terms and Conditions (Contract) between original purchase. It's already possible for the terms to forbid resale. So as it stands it's possible to sell untransferable tickets. And those who sell such tickets are in breach of contract, but are not breaking a law. What would 'making reselling tick…

IANAL, but if you enter a contract with the intent to violate it, is that legal? My understanding is that it's technically illegal (only civil perhaps, but still illegal), the impracticality of enforcement notwithstanding. Also, I have no idea if the contract for a ticket "sale" is really considered a contract for the purposes of such laws.

Re: StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

#60

Post by jacobr1 »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #32
dclaw wrote: post #20

End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

The UK is passing a law which makes it illegal to resell event tickets for greater than the face value.

+fees, though ideally the fees would be capped too
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