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Nomic

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Re: Nomic

#51
post #10

It sounds like "Calvinball". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes#section_6

It was my first thought as well ;) But the article doesn't do the comic strip justice. https://lh3.ggpht.com/_zRSvuGbL2L0/TE0I0GlkcTI/AAAAAAAAAg4/k... http://littlebobeep.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Calvinbal...

Thank you. This is the best description of the concept :) I also think that the existence of the permanent rule in the game (unique moves) makes it more engaging.

Re: Nomic

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much better game is Bartok (sometimes called Bartog) - it starts out as something approximating Uno[1]. Each time someone wins, they make a rule. Playing it with Mathematicians/CS types is brain-hurty (think mod-13 arithmetic and prime numbered cards behaving differently). --- [1] Some of the different rules: - If you ask a question, you get a 1 card penalty - If you have one card and don't say "bartok", you get yo…

That is the same as Mao.

Nope. In Bartok you're allowed to explain the rules, although asking a question is penalised.

Re: Nomic

#53
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-UO player: can you explain what was unique or different about it, or link me to somebody who writes about this? MMOs bore me, and the thought that UO did MMOs somehow better intrigues me. I find it easy to believe, but hard to understand why.

There were no classes, no levels. None of this "level 99 guy one shots level 1 guy". Skills did give advantages, but it was nothing that drastic. No real need to farm mobs to get items, as they weren't that important to begin with. Magical weapons did give a minor advantage, but were rare and you could lose them, so most of the time an old fashioned steel sword would suffice (bought from NPCs or crafted by player bla…

UO at its high point should have been the best game ever made. The problem is that it was super laggy and buggy the first few years, and then they started making terrible design decisions after 1999 or so. So it never really hit its full potential. I don't play games anymore, but I doubt if there's anything better today.

Re: Nomic

#54

If there is one thing that the "internet" has lost, it's games like this. I used to love playing #wolfgame on IRC. Even Ultima Online (although hardly a typical heritage game) definitely shaped the way MMORPGs evolved. Anyway, back onto Nomic. After reading the Wiki and seeing the "Initial Rule Set" [1] then reading through a lot of the archives it became clear that "chaos" and administration was the downfall of this…

I've stated a few times.. why can't we make UO in browser by now? Old rules of course.

Because apparently it is still up and running, costs money, and is owned by Electronic Arts? See uo.com - That aside, it seems technologically feasible.

Also interesting are the free/unauthorized reverse engineered UO emulators that continue to run today, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online_shard_emulation

Re: Nomic

#55

If there is one thing that the "internet" has lost, it's games like this. I used to love playing #wolfgame on IRC. Even Ultima Online (although hardly a typical heritage game) definitely shaped the way MMORPGs evolved. Anyway, back onto Nomic. After reading the Wiki and seeing the "Initial Rule Set" [1] then reading through a lot of the archives it became clear that "chaos" and administration was the downfall of this…

I've stated a few times.. why can't we make UO in browser by now? Old rules of course.

It's not that easy. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's easy.

Sure, you could put up a Kickstarter for it and get a bunch of money behind the project. But historically, using the premise of building an MMO as a way of raising a bunch of money will result in failing to build that MMO.

A programmer who has experience and talent also has no incentive to recreate UO (think about the modern-day incentive structures for hotshot programmers), unless he was one of the original players. And sadly the overlap between "players of videogames" and "the best game programmers" is actually quite small. Carmack, for example, doesn't play games. Most of the talented gamedevs I know don't actually play them.

Maybe it's a challenge I'll take on.

Re: Nomic

#56
A game that is similarly free-form, albeit less chaotic, is Eleusis. It is played with cards, and each round one person chooses a secret pattern, and the other players play cards, which are identified as correct or incorrect, and they try to figure out the pattern. So there are meta-rules about how the game is played, but the rules for "correct" cards change every game. It seems like a game many HNers would enjoy.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusis_%28card_game%29

Re: Nomic

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no classes, no levels. None of this "level 99 guy one shots level 1 guy". Skills did give advantages, but it was nothing that drastic. No real need to farm mobs to get items, as they weren't that important to begin with. Magical weapons did give a minor advantage, but were rare and you could lose them, so most of the time an old fashioned steel sword would suffice (bought from NPCs or crafted by player bla…

UO at its high point should have been the best game ever made. The problem is that it was super laggy and buggy the first few years, and then they started making terrible design decisions after 1999 or so. So it never really hit its full potential. I don't play games anymore, but I doubt if there's anything better today.

Yup, the network code wasn't that great in the early days. It definitely seemed tuned to dial-up internet.

I was one of the lucky ones that got a cable modem in the early days (one way cable modem, down was cable, up was 56k!) and had a great advantage in player vs player, as I could outrun their lag, and generally do things faster than them if they were on dialup.

Re: Nomic

#59

If there is one thing that the "internet" has lost, it's games like this. I used to love playing #wolfgame on IRC. Even Ultima Online (although hardly a typical heritage game) definitely shaped the way MMORPGs evolved. Anyway, back onto Nomic. After reading the Wiki and seeing the "Initial Rule Set" [1] then reading through a lot of the archives it became clear that "chaos" and administration was the downfall of this…

I just created a GitHub repo with the initial ruleset in Markdown format.

http://github.com/johndbritton/nomic

If you want to start a new game, you can fork the repo and begin accepting pull requests from your players. You can also see a listing of active games by checking out the network tab.

https://github.com/johndbritton/nomic/network

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