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Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

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Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#51

Post by vrganj »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #45
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

Even in new build homes? IIUC, many people in Europe were taking advantage of the incentives to install heat pumps as a back door mechanism to install A/C. After all a heat pump is essentially just A/C with a reverser switch. But that only works in homes with forced air heating. Most of Europe doesn't use forced air heating. You can replace a boiler with a heat pump, but if you do you don't magically get A/C too. In…

It also works in homes with wall heating. My parents now have wall cooling, which is much nicer than any forced air AC.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#53

Post by lrae »

zarzavat wrote: post #34

I wish that society can learn about and apply the concept of a wet bulb temperature. A dry bulb temperature of 30C contains little information regarding safety. Humans are wet and we cool ourselves with evaporation.

> Unions want enforceable workplace thermal limits, based on the wet bulb globe temperature (WBGT)

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/08/unions-e...

The submission just doesn't include it, but that seems to be the goal to apply that concept :)

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#54

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation.

Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, maybe they'd seriously need it one week per year or so... it didn't make sense for them to have it just to keep it turned off 99% of the time. I'm sure they will adapt, but it always takes some time to change the old ways.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#56

Post by weberer »

vrganj wrote: post #51
bryanlarsen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in new build homes? IIUC, many people in Europe were taking advantage of the incentives to install heat pumps as a back door mechanism to install A/C. After all a heat pump is essentially just A/C with a reverser switch. But that only works in homes with forced air heating. Most of Europe doesn't use forced air heating. You can replace a boiler with a heat pump, but if you do you don't magically get A/C too. In…

It also works in homes with wall heating. My parents now have wall cooling, which is much nicer than any forced air AC.

>wall cooling

That sounds like a big mold risk if its causing condensation in the walls. Wall heating, on the other hand sounds like a great idea.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#57

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

zarzavat wrote: post #34

I wish that society can learn about and apply the concept of a wet bulb temperature. A dry bulb temperature of 30C contains little information regarding safety. Humans are wet and we cool ourselves with evaporation.

First, weather services would need to report it. None of the ones I've seen do. Most don't even report feels-like temperature, they just report plain temperature... in my city (often windy and humid) it's all but useless, you can need a jacket with 21ºC one day and be comfortable without it with 16ºC the next.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#58

Post by lrae »

rz2k wrote: post #39
RetroTechie wrote: post #4

While they're at it, include schools too. Many school buildings have inadequate ventilation or climate control. Sweating in >30°C high-CO2 spaces doesn't improve student's learning.

That's an interesting way to investigate how much public policy surrounding schools is actually focused on student education. I think you'd find that there would be significant fear around crime in an environment that already has a heightened risk of riots. For younger students the debate would shift to burden of additional childcare.

Not sure about the rioting part, maybe in some places on earth, but I'd say the burden of additional childcare is obviously an issue. So is just missing those hours of education.

Which is why perhaps classes should not be suspended in most and less extreme cases, but rather adjusted. And good teachers are already doing that. (And long-term, AC has to be a thing.)

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#59

Post by vrganj »

weberer wrote: post #56
vrganj wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also works in homes with wall heating. My parents now have wall cooling, which is much nicer than any forced air AC.

>wall cooling That sounds like a big mold risk if its causing condensation in the walls. Wall heating, on the other hand sounds like a great idea.

Their walls are autoclaved aerated concrete, which is pretty good at both insulating (so less cooling needed) and absorbing/diffusing humidity, so I think in their case it's fine.

It's a pretty cool material!

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#60

Post by iso1631 »

zarzavat wrote: post #46
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heatwave The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.

There were 2-3 days a year above 30C in London from 1995 to 2015. Since then it's been about 6 days a year, and this year has already broken that
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