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"Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

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Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#51

Post by eth0up »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #5

Dave Farley has done some writing on what makes "Software Engineering" "Engineering" e.g. his 2021 book " Modern Software Engineering" > Software engineering is the application of an empirical, scientific approach to finding efficient, economic solutions to practical problems in software. https://www.davefarley.net/?p=352 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/57345270-modern-softw... https://productdeveloper.net/mod…

For me, a great example of where software engineering meets head to head with classical engineering is, eg SolidWorks, etc. Seeing a program mimic the physics of real moving parts, responding to many variables, etc, is to me, engineering plus, then some.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#52

Post by rbanffy »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #34
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Not even “engineering” is engineering. It’s equal parts art, craft, and science. And I say that as a classically trained engineer turned software engineer. Every engineering design is a compromise - it can be light, or easy to make, or robust, or cheap, or anything else driven by requirements. There is no such thing as an optimal design unless you pin the requirements down really tight - and this is where the art par…

Did you just call me poet sorcerer? Lol Cool analogies

My wife says I’m a computer charmer. I prefer to say I write executable poetry that moves the hearts of machines.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#53

Post by sys_64738 »

FatherOfCurses wrote: post #46

Engineering is a profession where individuals are certified by a governing body and required to maintain that certification through continuing education. The reason for that certification is because failure to follow the principles of the governing body can lead to injury or death, or to a lesser degree significant costs. Given all the ways that software can have those same significant impacts, I believe that there s…

Real engineers have to sign off their professional reputation against what they do. Software licences say that the software is provided as-is with zero liability. Calling software developers as "engineers" is just not the same thing.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#54

Post by bee_rider »

tdb7893 wrote: post #33

From knowing many different types of engineers, not only does software engineering fall pretty neatly within that group of jobs but also software is an integral part of their engineering practices. I know some people who are designing planes and if software isn't an engineering discipline I guess I need to tell them they recently became not engineers (though maybe because they occasionally use physics equations the a…

Engineers use software and inevitably some will improve the software as they use it. I’d draw a distinction between engineering using software, and engineering the software itself, though. It becomes a bit blurry—I’d say using the Matlab command line is not necessarily software engineering, it’s using a tool for engineering that happens to be made of software. But you can also write your own Matlab code, so if we want to say there’s software engineering I guess there’s no reason it couldn’t be done in that environment.

IMO, I’ve never been all that concerned as to whether the “engineer” label should apply to me (coming from an engineering education but mostly looking at software). It’s more about having a professional obligation than any great feats of skill anyway, and since an obligation is mostly just felt in your head, you can give it to yourself.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#55

Post by BerislavLopac »

rbanffy wrote: post #27

Not even “engineering” is engineering. It’s equal parts art, craft, and science. And I say that as a classically trained engineer turned software engineer. Every engineering design is a compromise - it can be light, or easy to make, or robust, or cheap, or anything else driven by requirements. There is no such thing as an optimal design unless you pin the requirements down really tight - and this is where the art par…

"Applied poet" is my new official title.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#56

Post by BerislavLopac »

ryandvm wrote: post #44
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Not even “engineering” is engineering. It’s equal parts art, craft, and science. And I say that as a classically trained engineer turned software engineer. Every engineering design is a compromise - it can be light, or easy to make, or robust, or cheap, or anything else driven by requirements. There is no such thing as an optimal design unless you pin the requirements down really tight - and this is where the art par…

I think software "engineering" is far more susceptible to fads than other engineering disciplines. Best practices in engineering evolve with respect to advances in material sciences, whereas best practices in software engineering are mostly just vibes and reactions. * Object oriented / functional * Thick client, thin client * Blockchain * NoSQL vs relational * Enterprise SOA * Framework churn This industry is continu…

> I think software "engineering" is far more susceptible to fads

No - it's just revolving so much faster, in every single sense. And it's only accelerating.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#59

Post by threethirtytwo »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #29
threethirtytwo wrote: post #3

>An engineer's model must be tightly bound to the laws of physics and chemistry. Anything that exists in reality and is observable by definition is tightly bound by the laws of physics and chemistry. Software is too. >Software is a lot like math, Probably referring to computer science. Computer science is neither about computers nor is it a science. It is a math. Software is like math but applied. >The only limitatio…

> > An engineer's model must be tightly bound to the laws of physics and chemistry. > Anything that exists in reality and is observable by definition is tightly bound by the laws of physics and chemistry. Software is too. No. Software is only loosely bound by physics and chemistry. Sure, the bounds exist - they're real - but most software, most of the time, does not bump into them much at all. But > > An engineer's m…

>but most software, most of the time, does not bump into them much at all.

You bump into it on a daily basis. Tokens are limited by compute which is limited by physics. It can't be more obvious than it is with modern software how limited computation is by actual real world physics.

Re: "Software Engineering" Is Not Engineering (2005)

#60

Post by threethirtytwo »

baq wrote: post #7
threethirtytwo wrote: post #3

>An engineer's model must be tightly bound to the laws of physics and chemistry. Anything that exists in reality and is observable by definition is tightly bound by the laws of physics and chemistry. Software is too. >Software is a lot like math, Probably referring to computer science. Computer science is neither about computers nor is it a science. It is a math. Software is like math but applied. >The only limitatio…

> software engineering does not involve mathematical modeling it absolutely can, approximately nobody was doing that because it was insanely expensive. if we narrow down the definitions, modern static typing (where modern means universally accepted nowadays ) is a form of mathematical modeling and proof construction that software does what it says it does. the economic calculation is changing extremely rapidly now wi…

Yeah if you read further I mention the exceptions. Generally speaking though we don't do mathematical modeling. Basic Type checking is as far as we typically go.
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