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Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

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Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#51

Post by em-bee »

toofy wrote: post #31
em-bee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i believe that in the future technology will be so advanced that protection of privacy is impossible. the only way to counter that is education to respect peoples privacy and very harsh punishments for violations. i also believe that we will live in a post scarcity world, which means profit is no longer interesting, so any business case for invading your privacy will go away and therefore it will only happen for pers…

> i believe that in the future technology will be so advanced that protection of privacy is impossible. the only way to counter that is… i’m not sure why so many of us have fallen into this… “there is no other future” thing… there are other options. plenty of them. there is no singular solution. we could always just say “no”. and that’s that. that would be one option. why do we feel like there is no other way? why ar…

i didn't say that there is no other possible future. it's just that this is what i believe is the most likely. science fiction presents plenty of other ideas. if you believe any of those are more likely, please share.

here is my argument:

technology will not stop advancing. for good and for bad. we will not one day realize that we should stop progressing tech and switch to an amish approach to technology. highly unlikely.

other scifi futures involve end of the world scenarios. in my opinion those are not interesting, because if they happen even with survivors humanity is mostly over anyways, so i am not entertaining those. humanity will survive in large numbers.

another option is absolute corporate control. we are kind of heading towards that, but if things go really bad then people will revolt. and either the people win or we have another end of the world scenario. you only need to look at china. if they are to strict, people start protesting. so absolute corporate control is not going to happen.

the last one i can think of is a multi class society. that too is unlikely as we have been going away from that over the last century and i do not believe we'll ever go back.

as you can see from these options, education has the only good outcome. therefore it is the most likely one.

education IS the way of saying "no". it's teaching our children to not do that. saying no to certain tech development is unlikely because there is no tech that only has bad use. not even technology that enables weapons. education is the only way to stop people from abusing technology for bad things.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#52

Post by em-bee »

Calazon wrote: post #43
toofy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i believe that in the future technology will be so advanced that protection of privacy is impossible. the only way to counter that is… i’m not sure why so many of us have fallen into this… “there is no other future” thing… there are other options. plenty of them. there is no singular solution. we could always just say “no”. and that’s that. that would be one option. why do we feel like there is no other way? why ar…

I suspect because some of these things would require us all to say no, which is difficult to coordinate and enforce. It's not impossible, but it's not as easy as "just" saying no, as a society.

right, and for all to be able to say no requires education.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#53

Post by failbuffer »

m11a wrote: post #8
rightbyte wrote: post #5

It seems beyond naive, rather malicious, to upload any useful private data to SaaS LLMs. Like, you are letting them data mine your business. Why are corporations not panicing over this?

Most corporations likely have zero data retention agreements with LLM providers, at least for API usage. (Sure, you could be sceptical on whether the LLM provider is upholding that, but I personally do trust them. The trust betrayal if ZDR wasn't actually ZDR would be too great and commercially damaging for them to lie.)

These firms were completely fine with mass copyright infringement. And the temptation to keep data would be great, especially as they fight for every bit of technical advantage in a market that "wants" to be commodified.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#54

Post by davkan »

failbuffer wrote: post #53
m11a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most corporations likely have zero data retention agreements with LLM providers, at least for API usage. (Sure, you could be sceptical on whether the LLM provider is upholding that, but I personally do trust them. The trust betrayal if ZDR wasn't actually ZDR would be too great and commercially damaging for them to lie.)

These firms were completely fine with mass copyright infringement. And the temptation to keep data would be great, especially as they fight for every bit of technical advantage in a market that "wants" to be commodified.

Well they abused fair use and pretended llm learning was the same as human learning. Enough gray area to risk court. A lot less gray area when there are signed contracts involved saying they won’t I think.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#55

Post by nezhar »

golly_ned wrote: post #41

Has anyone figured out why anyone would bother adopting the google 'open knowledge format'? Normally I expect a set of tooling to be build on top of any open format. Value-adds and interoperability. Instead I just see a way to organize markdown files.

Still looking for this, the OpenKB project look promising.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#56

Post by Calazon »

em-bee wrote: post #52
Calazon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect because some of these things would require us all to say no, which is difficult to coordinate and enforce. It's not impossible, but it's not as easy as "just" saying no, as a society.

right, and for all to be able to say no requires education.

Sure, but arguably education is the easy part. The even harder problem is aligning incentives/values and avoiding a tragedy of the commons sort of situation.

Re: Knowledge Should Not Be Gated

#57

Post by em-bee »

Calazon wrote: post #56
em-bee wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, and for all to be able to say no requires education.

Sure, but arguably education is the easy part. The even harder problem is aligning incentives/values and avoiding a tragedy of the commons sort of situation.

that's what education needs to do. school should not just be about STEM. it should teach values and virtues. that's even more important than STEM because the latter will follow once the kids learned good values
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