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Programmers need to start meditating

jacob.gold

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Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#51

Post by VorpalWay »

ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

One idea to consider might be going into safety critical embedded work (e.g. brake controllers, critical systems for airplanes/trains, medical devices, some industrial systems, ...). AI hasn't penetrated much here yet. It isn't at all clear how or if you would be able to certify the process for example.

That might change with time, but for now, all I see AI used for is additional code review and side scripts/tooling that don't need to be safety rated.

Of course, that might mean entirely switching language (C, C++ or increasingly but still in minority Rust), learning entirely different skills (control system theory, real time systems, possibly formal verification but usually not), etc.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#52

Post by markus_zhang »

senfiaj wrote: post #9
ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

Yeah, same thoughts. And this industry is becoming so volatile, I'm not sure what will happen tomorrow. I mean it's highly unlikely that AI will replace developers at least in the next 10 years, but I'm not sure what will "software developer" become. Certain people love to work with details. If AI is taking away this joy, I'll rather retire as early as possible from this volatile industry.

I’m trying to get a bit away from the business stakeholders, into more technically required roles. Eventually my goal is to get into a system programming role.

The issue with roles close to business is that it doesn’t provide the right soil for good engineering . Your stakeholders have no concept of engineering and wants everything ASAP; Your manager is just a yes man who takes all tickets, and want you to use AI for everything because it’s so easy and quick; Your VP thinks your team is not moving quickly enough; Your VP puts speed before quality literally.

The thing is, I believe that some roles and some industries just don’t care about good engineering. If you want to be a good engineer, you have to stay away from them, even if they are high paying, and get yourself into a system programming role, in a company that fails you if you do not have good engineering practices. The only way to be a good engineer is to put yourself in such an environment that you will almost surely fail if you are not a good one. There is a cool-aid and many engineers drink that the most important thing is "business value", and I politely vomit that all out a while ago. The new rule is to become an engineer that they are still willing to pay you even if you spit on their faces.

Those roles and companies can die and I don’t give a fuck about those business clowns.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#53

Post by leonidasrup »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #34
inigyou wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major catastrophes haven't happened yet because of vibe coding Didn't Azure, AWS and Cloudflare crash a few times in the second half of 2025 because of vibe coding?

Catastrophies would be we vibe coded a nuclear plant or space rocket system and we blew up thousands of people due to a vibe coding error.

I can confirm that nuclear power plant software has much higher quality level than normal commercial software and extremly extensive testing. In addition, lot of nuclear safety is checked below the software level on hardware level.

Developement of nuclear power plant software is very conservative, it will use LLMs maybe in 10-15 years.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#54

Post by stavros »

cyclopeanutopia wrote: post #40
stavros wrote: post #31

I was discussing Buddhism with a few Buddhist friends this past weekend, and I randomly had an enlightenment. It was a very odd experience, I felt like I understood all the weird things I'd heard from them, and I suddenly became very calm and accepting of everything. I also had a sense of sort of "watching" what I was experiencing through my own eyes. I'm generally hyper rationalist, so this was a very interesting ex…

What was the thing that made you click?

I asked my friend "is the purpose of meditation just to feel existence?" and he said "yes, and also taking your fears, insecurities, etc and throwing them away", and something just clicked.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#55

Post by memoriyato3 »

ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

it was impossible to write code for 8 hours straight, you naturally had to stop

but you can prompt for 8 hours more or less

like running versus cycling - you can cover more distance by cycling and it's less intensive (I'm talking casual running/cycling, not racing)

agents are a bicycle for the mind

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#56

Post by hannofcart »

phyzix5761 wrote: post #46
hannofcart wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone brought up in a Hindu household (with Brahmin orthodoxy at that and all the casteism that came with it) and having learnt to shun all of that culture, and the religious indoctrination, here's the essence of mindfulness meditation that I was taught that I still practice and find useful. 1. Sit somewhere comfortable. Sitting "cross legged" or with your "back straight" as the guide linked to above advocates i…

The Mahasi method is quite different. You don't try to calm or control your mind. You observe and note your experiences as they're happening. Over time the calmness comes (and goes) but its not the goal. The goal is to see reality clearly. This clear seeing (which is where the word Vipassana comes from) leads to a change in the habit patterns that cause our stress and suffering.

You're right. This is a different technique. This is my simplification of the TM technique along with "japa" (repetition of a phrase) as is typically taught in the Brahmin scripture school mileu.

Since the OP was about achieving flow state and focus, I thought this was relevant.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#57

Post by reactordev »

memoriyato3 wrote: post #55
ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

it was impossible to write code for 8 hours straight, you naturally had to stop but you can prompt for 8 hours more or less like running versus cycling - you can cover more distance by cycling and it's less intensive (I'm talking casual running/cycling, not racing) agents are a bicycle for the mind

The point was they trained to be a runner, not a cyclist.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#58

Post by crudgen »

I think the more stressful part is the management expectation that things will speed up more, especially when you can generate plausible looking frontends relatively quickly. And if you have out of touch control-freak management without any technical experience, you waste more life time arguing with them.

Of course you also might exhaust yourself to some degree, as your own expectation might be that you can develop multiple things in parallel, while also having to review a lot of code where you might not have context, so in a way you have to hold more high level context in your brain state, what might be somewhat stressful. However, when you have been tech lead once, all of that is somewhat familiar.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#59

Post by rdbell »

VorpalWay wrote: post #51
ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

One idea to consider might be going into safety critical embedded work (e.g. brake controllers, critical systems for airplanes/trains, medical devices, some industrial systems, ...). AI hasn't penetrated much here yet. It isn't at all clear how or if you would be able to certify the process for example. That might change with time, but for now, all I see AI used for is additional code review and side scripts/tooling…

"Switch to a field that involves many people dying if you write a bug" doesn't sound like the less stressful alternative to me.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#60

Post by Tarq0n »

wolvoleo wrote: post #44
ajb wrote: post #16

This isn't the worst article, and it's triggered a decent amount of discussion (despite being very short). However, I really dislike "What you're doing wrong/failing to do" titles. They are intended to trigger anxiety, which is manipulative and (in this case) precisely contradicts the concern the author is purporting to have for the rest of us. On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it…

> On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it a net negative, or useless, or impossible to do. So a categorical "you should do this" isn't correct or particularly helpful. Try it, if it works for you, great; but don't put it about that people who aren't doing it are being negligent in some way Absolutely. I've tried mediation in many situations and some classes but it's just not for me. M…

Relaxation isn't really a goal of meditation. When you do it you cultivate a kind of meta-cognition, an awareness of - and control over - the kind of invasive thinking that usually dominates our awareness.

As a fellow ADHD person I didn't get out the first few times I tried, but now find it quite helpful.

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