Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

euronews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 68 posts

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#51

Post by scotty79 »

alephnerd wrote: post #14
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

> Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China... China has embargoed rare earth exports to the EU [0] as well as enforcing sanctions against the EU's domestic drone and UAV industry [1]. China is also training Russian soldiers on drone tactics to be used in Ukraine [2][3] as well as continuing to back Russia's position on Ukraine [4]. If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia pr…

> If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia primacy within Europe by giving up Ukraine, as well as completely giving up on European domestic industry.

Absolutely not. China is not a friend of russia. It's just convenient for them to prolong the time that russia bleeds out. The best way of achieving this is not letting russia to lose to fast. Any kind of russian success does not serve China in any capacity.

Europe could offer China a lot to tip the balance.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#52

Post by scotty79 »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #24
dv_dt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping is the word used for some other nations effective industrial development policy

No, it literally is dumping. E. g. Chinese EV makers were selling at a loss (even with subsidies) until very recently this year and are struggling immensely now.

Chinese EV makers are selling at a loss to Chinese people as well. It's not a cunning strategy to destroy EU industry. It's capitalistic competition driven to absurd levels. In the west it rarely ever happens anymore because governments are in the pockets of the business, but in China, companies really do compete between themselves to the death.

If you want to see a glimpse of this, look on youtube for materials on Chinese EV scooter rental business market.

European people could massively benefit from this Chinese competition. European business can't offer consumer similar deals because it's inefficient due to business-protectionist policies of Western governments. Instead of treating it as an impulse to step up, they provide more protectionism while the European consumers are not getting the value they could making Europe altogether poorer and less technologically advanced than it could be.

I can understand US fearmongering because they are in the process of losing the lead permanently and it shatters their entire national identity. But Europeans singing the same song is just silly. When someone is more advanced than you and offers you superior value for cheap you should buy all you can and learn all you can.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#53

Post by Honda0419 »

tommica wrote: post #3

Nah, we rather regulate ourselves out of existence. Any investment you do, the money will go to paying random taxes and fees to services that make sure you are filling the arbitrary criteria of bullshit. Maybe after that you have some pocket change to spend on your idea instead. And if you do happen to make a successful company, then the governments want a cut of that too, because making money is a no-no thing.

[dead]

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#54

Post by dv_dt »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #24
dv_dt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping is the word used for some other nations effective industrial development policy

No, it literally is dumping. E. g. Chinese EV makers were selling at a loss (even with subsidies) until very recently this year and are struggling immensely now.

Are current AI offerings from companies in the US considered dumping?

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#55

Post by alephnerd »

scotty79 wrote: post #51
alephnerd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China... China has embargoed rare earth exports to the EU [0] as well as enforcing sanctions against the EU's domestic drone and UAV industry [1]. China is also training Russian soldiers on drone tactics to be used in Ukraine [2][3] as well as continuing to back Russia's position on Ukraine [4]. If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia pr…

> If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia primacy within Europe by giving up Ukraine, as well as completely giving up on European domestic industry. Absolutely not. China is not a friend of russia. It's just convenient for them to prolong the time that russia bleeds out. The best way of achieving this is not letting russia to lose to fast. Any kind of russian success does not serve China i…

> Europe could offer China a lot to tip the balance

> Any kind of russian success does not serve China in any capacity

That's not what the Chinese policymakers think [0][1].

They view the EU as a has-been that thinks it's a global power but lacks the technology or capability to become one [2].

On the other hand, Russia helps China put pressure on Japan [3], South Korea [4], Central Asia [5], backchannel with India [6], allows China to bypass Hormuz [7], and is transferring military IP to China [8].

Even China's foreign minister Wang Yi told Kaja Kallas this point blank [9] and even the Polish policymaking space recognizes this [10].

[0] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht...

[1] - https://ies.cass.cn/cn/work/comment/202206/t20220601_5410899...

[2] - https://www.ccpit.org/france/a/20260623/20260623vb86.html

[3] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-b...

[4] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqxq38028djo

[5] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china-looks-strengthen-ties-ru...

[6] - https://eastasiaforum.org/2020/10/23/how-russia-emerged-as-k...

[7] - https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3345920/m...

[8] - https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/comme...

[9] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...

[10] - https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2025-01-...

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#56

Post by titanomachy »

scotty79 wrote: post #50
titanomachy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Referring to humanity as "consumers" is gross.

Really? Referring to someone as the "consumer" is talking about the part of their life where they exert their economic power to fulfill their and their dependents needs and desires. When you say "worker" you are talking about the time when they sell their life away and suspend their freedoms to get resources to stay alive. So basically when they are at their lowest. It should feel way more offensive to you and the fa…

I also wouldn't reduce a human to a "worker".

Perhaps your relationship with the world is that you reluctantly labour so that you have money which you can exchange for the things that you want. Many people relate to the world this way, but not all of them.

The most joyful moments of my life are things like hiking with friends, or good conversation, or spending time with family, not purchasing commercial goods. And conversely, my work often gives me opportunities to help people, which I find fulfilling. If I didn't need the money (and I don't, probably) then I would still spend at least some of my time doing something work-like.

The economic lens is only one (incomplete) way of viewing human activity. Don't get so attached to that lens that you diminish your view of yourself, and your own potential.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#57

Post by nephihaha »

joe_mamba wrote: post #29
nephihaha wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I see the word "change" used all the time as if it is a good thing. Change is good, bad or indifferent depending on circumstances. It is not automatically progress.

>It is not automatically progress. Irrelevant. The world changes for better and for worse, whether you want to or not, and you can only ignore it and piss against the wind so long before you get wet. Ignoring, resisting or opposing global change only works if you're THE global hegemon and can bully everyone else to operate by your rules. Europe is not, therefore it can't dictate terms for others so it can't keep resi…

> The world changes for better and for worse,

Erm, that was my point.

But I have heard people saying they "like change". I like change for the better and not the other kinds so much.

NB: Europe =/= EU. I am in part of Europe which isn't in the EU.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#58

Post by scotty79 »

alephnerd wrote: post #55
scotty79 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia primacy within Europe by giving up Ukraine, as well as completely giving up on European domestic industry. Absolutely not. China is not a friend of russia. It's just convenient for them to prolong the time that russia bleeds out. The best way of achieving this is not letting russia to lose to fast. Any kind of russian success does not serve China i…

> Europe could offer China a lot to tip the balance > Any kind of russian success does not serve China in any capacity That's not what the Chinese policymakers think [0][1]. They view the EU as a has-been that thinks it's a global power but lacks the technology or capability to become one [2]. On the other hand, Russia helps China put pressure on Japan [3], South Korea [4], Central Asia [5], backchannel with India [6…

> They view the EU as a has-been that thinks it's a global power but lacks the technology or capability to become one

Which is spot on. That's why Europe should do everything in their power to facilitate technology sharing.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#59

Post by alephnerd »

scotty79 wrote: post #58
alephnerd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe could offer China a lot to tip the balance > Any kind of russian success does not serve China in any capacity That's not what the Chinese policymakers think [0][1]. They view the EU as a has-been that thinks it's a global power but lacks the technology or capability to become one [2]. On the other hand, Russia helps China put pressure on Japan [3], South Korea [4], Central Asia [5], backchannel with India [6…

> They view the EU as a has-been that thinks it's a global power but lacks the technology or capability to become one Which is spot on. That's why Europe should do everything in their power to facilitate technology sharing.

And China is not interested in doing so with European states let alone other countries.

Heck, the PRC just passed legislation that all technology transfers outside of China need final approval from the central government [0].

And as I pointed out above but you ignored, China does not view the EU as an equal nor as a potential partner. They just like the US are more interested in bilateral relations with individual states that are pliable to them instead of the supranational EU.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-toughens-ru...

Post reply on HN