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Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

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Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#51

Post by simianwords »

mthoms wrote: post #48
simianwords wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Degrowth is absolutely not niche in Western Europe. In Germany and NL, it is the new religion along with free Palestine movement. Take any moderately educated Zillenial and ask them what they feel passionately about. People are feeling more and more alienated from large scale projects of humanity. They have also given up on religion itself. What remains is a facade of religion where degrowth and Palestine take act as…

I'm old enough to remember the 1980's when people largely adopted a strikingly similar "new religion" that advocated for a free South Africa. The Free Tibet "religion" was also a huge thing for a while in the 90's. There are countless other examples. All with varying degrees of success. The point is, there's nothing new about people being passionate about human rights. It has absolutely nothing to do with... well...…

You may not see it but I see the parallels between degrowth and Palestine. Both are sad attempts at replacing religion. Something that brings people together for a common cause.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#52

Post by nozzlegear »

anamax wrote: post #11
throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

Salient point (for me) from TFA regarding the number of heat-related deaths in Europe:

> So the death rate from heat in Europe is almost twice the death rate from guns in America. If you think guns are an emergency in the U.S., you should think that heat in Europe is an even bigger emergency.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#53

Post by nozzlegear »

pydry wrote: post #7
throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

An American decided to be smug because Europe suddenly passed the threshold where aircon went from a nice to have to a necessity.

It's interesting that you found the author smug, rather than informative or maybe prosecutorial toward the European elites who ostensibly want to sacrifice the masses at the altar of degrowth.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#54

Post by pibaker »

I have seen more criticism of resistance against AC than people actually arguing against AC.

Maybe there is a group of loud AC resistors somewhere that I managed to avoid this whole time? Or maybe the pundits are pushing a narrative to rile people up and drive their substack income like they always do? Who knows!

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#55

Post by echoangle »

simianwords wrote: post #36
echoangle wrote: post #29

I can’t hear this degrowth strawman anymore. There are probably 20 people complaining about people wanting degrowth for everyone who actually advocates for that. It’s not like every politician in Europe is advocating for that.

Degrowth is absolutely not niche in Western Europe. In Germany and NL, it is the new religion along with free Palestine movement. Take any moderately educated Zillenial and ask them what they feel passionately about. People are feeling more and more alienated from large scale projects of humanity. They have also given up on religion itself. What remains is a facade of religion where degrowth and Palestine take act as…

Well we’re both German and my experience is different. Stickers don’t really tell me anything and the rest is just anecdote.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#56

Post by nozzlegear »

throwaway676712 wrote: post #42
revolvingthrow wrote: post #25

> sunlight causes most of the heat issues; cloudy days are unlikely to be extremely hot > solar panels convert sunlight to electricity > AC converts electricity to cooler air indoors Ah, if only there was a way to solve those three problems at once. Alas... As to the "resistance" to AC: is this an actual thing or just something the media made up? It seems that for the most part anyone who wants AC can just buy it, ba…

It's just a meme but too-online professional opinion-havers memed themselves into taking it seriously. Many such cases unfortunately

How is it a meme? The article literally lists instances of European elites chiding the lower classes for wanting AC, and spreading misinformation about portable units. It even recounts an instance of the AC being turned off during a heatwave on the floors of Ursula von der Leyen's building for regular staff, while the floors with chancellors and von der Leyen were prioritized and kept their AC. As the article notes: for all the talk about late-stage capitalism and elites, it's hard to imagine that happening in the US.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#57

Post by Tmpod »

I always struggle to take these sort of posts from people who don't live in "Europe" seriously. Europe is not a unit like the USA is, it's very diverse, and you generally can't neatly extrapolate your observations from one country to all others.

It hasn't ever been this hot, this regularly, especially in the northen parts of the continent. Add that to the number of historical building, streets, etc, that really can't (or shouldn't) get littered with eyesores on every balcony, and you can understand why AC units never picked up much steam in a lot of places. But that doesn't mean people have some twisted aversion to the technology, in fact, it already exists in many places. Where I'm from (a southern country), it's more common for a public place (buildings, transport, and so on) to have AC than to not have it. On people's homes, it's less common, but there's been a natural increase in demand. Unfortunately, many can't justify the investment to retrofit it into existing buildings, though new ones are likely to be built with central HVAC systems.

I don't know, it feels weird to read pieces like this one. It seems clear the author does not live over here and has a skewed conception of what Europe is and the peculiarities of each country and region. His previous post on the topic even goes as far as calling out some form of resistant to "foreign technology"...

It's easy to make blanket assumptions, but a bit of empathy and a more careful approach into these issues would go a long way.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#58

Post by citadel_melon »

pibaker wrote: post #54

I have seen more criticism of resistance against AC than people actually arguing against AC. Maybe there is a group of loud AC resistors somewhere that I managed to avoid this whole time? Or maybe the pundits are pushing a narrative to rile people up and drive their substack income like they always do? Who knows!

This other article mentioned that France’s left party was anti-AC but are now starting to change their policy positions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48661506

From this limited sample, I’d imagine there was a groups of advocates arguing for anti-AC policies, but that this is now shifting with as climate change develops.

Questionable (albeit maybe defensible) degrowth policies are not unheard of in the EU. Most famously is Germany’s move away from nuclear which forced their dependence on Russian natural gas. So there is probably truth that people used to be somewhat anti-AC. But, I’d share your skepticism if there are large groups of people who still believe in anti-AC policies. The article I share would suggest many of these people have updated their priors.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#59

Post by throwaway676712 »

nozzlegear wrote: post #56
throwaway676712 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a meme but too-online professional opinion-havers memed themselves into taking it seriously. Many such cases unfortunately

How is it a meme? The article literally lists instances of European elites chiding the lower classes for wanting AC, and spreading misinformation about portable units. It even recounts an instance of the AC being turned off during a heatwave on the floors of Ursula von der Leyen's building for regular staff, while the floors with chancellors and von der Leyen were prioritized and kept their AC. As the article notes:…

European elites as in a couple media figures and fellow extremely online people that professional internet opinion havers like him have convinced themselves control the world narrative. In reality AC is very common in Europe except in old buildings or poorer households, same as everywhere else.

This is the same level of analysis as Europeans on 4chan saying >be Amerifat >get shot, you're supposed to grow out of meme thinking upon becoming a mature adult

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#60

Post by tsoukase »

Central-western Europe will have to massively install ACs, sooner or later, either only for cooling or both. They will not resist the summer heat in the coming years. Good for the AC companies.

The most difficult step is to accept the ugliness of the external unit to their beautiful buildings. Imagine Paris with a gray box hanged out of each 35m2 apartment.

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