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Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

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Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#51

Post by russli1993 »

mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

memory is a commodity is laughable. Then software engineering is even more a commodity, the amount of engineering going into making memory chips the vast majority of people don't understand. There are a lot of software engineers getting this field after leetcoding and copy from hellointerview. Claude can write you an app in 30 minutes. Try build a lpddr5 dram chip in 30 minutes. Manufacturing know how itself is a specialty and barrier to entry.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#52

Post by mrtksn »

dist-epoch wrote: post #46
mrtksn wrote: post #38

What happens if Samsung and SK Hynix simply stop selling to US at all? Micron is in US but are the rest still in the US jurisdiction? They are selling the hottest commodity of the day. It’s made outside of the US using non-American tooling.

US is the vast majority of their market - Apple, hyper-scalers, AI labs

Why can't they just buy the exact same product and install it in Kazakhstan or somewhere else?

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#53

Post by jackb4040 »

varispeed wrote: post #15

Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the UK it is called "price match" and eg. if supermarket says they keep prices matched to their competitor. No regulator raises an eyebrow. So here Samsung and SK Hynix could say they price match to Micron and they are in the clear.

Price match creates downward pressure, nobody is gonna sue over lower prices.

This is like if you showed a supermarket that their competitor's oranges were more expensive, and they "matched" by raising their prices for everyone.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#55

Post by Catloafdev »

I don't see how this can really go anywhere, but it'd be nice if it does.

Not like it'd be the first time someone shook a stick at them.

At this point the only hope for change is if China finally decides to get in the game rather than just threatening to.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#56

Post by bryanlarsen »

dcrazy wrote: post #30
varispeed wrote: post #15

Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the UK it is called "price match" and eg. if supermarket says they keep prices matched to their competitor. No regulator raises an eyebrow. So here Samsung and SK Hynix could say they price match to Micron and they are in the clear.

> Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the U.S., competitors are allowed to act in similar ways in response to economic realities, as long as they each arrive at that decision independently. But publicly anchoring your price to a competitor’s is potentially illegal. > Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct ) among competitors to raise, lower, maintain, or…

Identical prices are often a sign of intense competition. Every gas station on a corner has the same price because it's a highly competitive market not because of collusion. The prices of the much more lucrative chocolate bars inside the gas stations are less likely to be identical.

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#57

Post by jackb4040 »

Arubis wrote: post #23
cute_boi wrote: post #13

I think the only solution to this issue is China. If CXMT can supply, it will put all these monopolies in check.

That’s a nice short-term solution. How do you envision adding an infinitely-deep-pocketed state-sponsored supplier to the mix over the longer term?

What would the issue be, in the long term? I'm struggling to see a downside to more manufacturing capacity

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#58

Post by russli1993 »

0xy wrote: post #3

I think it's incredibly unlikely to be deliberate price fixing this time. Demand is too high.

if demand is too high, the market will adjust by adding supply. If Apple can't take the price of memory, why don't they make memory themselves. Oh no, the technical and manufacturing know-how is a barrier to entry and there is no talent available to make it. That is memory or semi companies' competitive advantages and their pricing power. It also takes Phd degrees to work at hardware companies. You can't have people doing leetcode for 2 months and todo apps and getting into the field and make 300k a year and hardware engineers wih Phds making 100k before this boom. It is long overdue for a rebalance of pricing power between hardware and software companies

Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing

#59

Post by russli1993 »

cute_boi wrote: post #13

I think the only solution to this issue is China. If CXMT can supply, it will put all these monopolies in check.

cxmt is also selling their memory similar to the big three. No one hardware company in their right mind will sell their products not as high as possible after you learn how much harder hardware engineer and fab people work for.
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