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Thomann takes legal action against Fender

thomann.de

51–60 of 146 posts

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#51
On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work.

Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#52
post #19

This is a place where European copyright law is significantly different from US copyright law. In the US, copyright cannot cover a "functional part", which is why there is a third party auto parts industry. Improved functionality can be covered by a utility patent, but that lasts only 20 years. Designs can be protected by design patents, which last only 15 years. So in the US, any rights left in the form of the Strat…

But technically the guitar does not have to have a shape of a strat. It could be any other shape, why not be creative and make your own design?

Ergonomics. Any solid-body guitar that's designed to be comfortable when played sitting or standing will converge on a strat-ish body shape. You can make a computer mouse in any shape, but the shape of a comfortable mouse is constrained by the shape of an average human palm.

The various curves and bevels on the Stratocaster aren't arbitrary aesthetic features, they're affordances to fit the human body. Change them too much and you get a guitar that won't balance on your knee or that pokes you in the ribs or that limits your access to the high frets.

Ola Strandberg set out to design the most ergonomic guitar possible. His design is both radical and basically derivative of the Strat, because Leo Fender happened to find something close to the perfect solution in 1954.

https://strandbergguitars.com/en-GB/product/boden-essential-...

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#53
post #33

I play guitar, I own a Fender guitar and a Fender amp, along with another non-fender amp and 2 other non Fender guitars. I'm just super sick of hearing about this story. Guitar players online are way too worked up about this. Fender is being annoying, but there is no way I'm getting rid of my Fender guitar or amp over this, and there is no way any of this would stop me from buying another one. The Fender shapes just…

Fender has seen quality deteriorate to extremely concerning levels in the past 5-10 years, ask any luthier. That frustrated players and now this is icing on the cake as competition has surpassed them in quality and in value and now they come beating them up since they are seeing their piece of the marketplace get smaller.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#54

I used to work for a Thomann competitor "Musicstore" in ~2005. The server was some tower server in a back office with a note reminding everyone not to turn it off. With Thoman being hugged to death right now I would like to think of there being a similar situation (its probably fine, but it made me feel nostalgic).

Similar work experience, I was with a CBS-owned music company that had a CNC machine with some old Fender Telecaster and Stratocaster body templates.

The hardware manager was cool and would let employees turn slabs of wood into Tele- and Strat-style bodies after hours.

When the Fender/German court ruling came down, my first thought was: Fender has had roughly 70 years with the Stratocaster design, and the broader industry has been making S-style guitars for decades.

Surely at some point a body shape becomes generic, right?

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#55
post #28
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works fine here…

Dead for me, as is the archive link.

Still works... it's not showing as using a CDN, in fact they seem to own their IPv4 space (212.204.75.161) and getting connectivity from a midsize Bavarian ISP (M-net). Maybe there's a routing problem somewhere. The path for me is - DE-CIX - their ISP.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#56

Apparently Fender got bought up by a private equity fund, Servco Pacific Capital. Who would have guessed.

Makes complete sense to me. Fender has immense cultural cachet among multiple big-spending demographics: blues boomers, Cobain disciples, indie kids, even the hair metal guys via Charvel. The Gibson/Harley-Davidson move of leveraging a company that makes stuff into a lifestyle brand is the play here. Fender would rather throw legal weight around to execute that than compete by building high-quality guitars at a good…

Masterbuilts are closer to $10k now, fwiw. Plenty of shop built CS hover around $5k or more.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#57
post #19

This is a place where European copyright law is significantly different from US copyright law. In the US, copyright cannot cover a "functional part", which is why there is a third party auto parts industry. Improved functionality can be covered by a utility patent, but that lasts only 20 years. Designs can be protected by design patents, which last only 15 years. So in the US, any rights left in the form of the Strat…

Fender has protected the strat design under the claim of "work of applied art" ( https://spotlight.fender.com/newsroom/news/1004 ) which is also a concept in US copyright law, they just don't have a judgement for it etc. in their favour, unlike in Europe.

I can't find the details, but this needs to be under the copyright laws of the 1950s, which were very different from today. If they didn't properly register and re-register the copyright over the years the copyright is public domain. A lawyer will need to figure out these details of course.

Edit: of course this case is in Germany, so US law doesn't apply and I claim not information on what their laws are.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#58

On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work. Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

> You can probably

No need for "probably". That absolutely works.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#59
post #19

This is a place where European copyright law is significantly different from US copyright law. In the US, copyright cannot cover a "functional part", which is why there is a third party auto parts industry. Improved functionality can be covered by a utility patent, but that lasts only 20 years. Designs can be protected by design patents, which last only 15 years. So in the US, any rights left in the form of the Strat…

But technically the guitar does not have to have a shape of a strat. It could be any other shape, why not be creative and make your own design?

There's an article related to the headline linked at the top which explains it.

"The upper horn ensures perfect balance, the cutaways make it easier to play in the upper registers, and the contours of the body increase playing comfort. The shape of the Stratocaster was created to provide musicians with the most functional and ergonomic tool possible.

This is exactly why it has been taken up, developed further and reinterpreted by luthiers all over the world over decades."

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because strats sell. Oddly shaped guitars don't, or at least not for a long time, and would never break into the top 10 best selling guitar shapes.

But I think people who want to buy a strat, would prefer to buy a Fender strat and not a cheaper copy that has the same shape but might sound worse? I personally do not like the price though.

> would prefer to buy a Fender strat

I don't think that's true at all. A strat ("strat style" or "s-style") is a shape and configuration. Many of the non-Fender strats are perfectly fine guitars (I have one) from major manufacturers like Ibanez, ESR, Jackson, and others. See forex: https://www.sweetwater.com/c589--S_style--Electric_Guitars

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