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Swift Package Index joins Apple

swiftpackageindex.com

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Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#51

Post by lenerdenator »

RobMurray wrote: post #34
jshier wrote: post #2

Not optimistic here. While I'm glad the SPI guys are getting paid (that is, a full time job), Apple is pretty bad at open source and developer services both, and they explicitly call out developer identity as a future direction, which doesn't fill me with hope.

I tried to get a personal developer account (I'm already a developer through an organisation). The app required a Driver's license as the only accepted ID. I don't drive because I'm blind. They did a screen share and talked me through applying on the web site. It failed. They never gave a reason and ignored me when I asked for one. They just said "Hello Robert, Thank you for your patience while I awaited a response f…

I'm not sure about the laws where you're at, but to me, this sounds like something they should have to accommodate you on.

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#52

Post by giobox »

aaronvg wrote: post #19

kind of surprised Swift didn't launch with this by default, built in-house

I'm always surprised as well when new languages targeting widespread use launch without an official one. Dotnet/C#, Go and other languages that come batteries included with the package manager built into some kind of compiler/SDK binary, make the out of the box experience so much smoother, and the community hasn't fragmented nearly as much as say Java, Python and JS have into competing third party package management and project build tools.

Everyone in the Go community more or less uses the same Go modules support built into the SDK binary, much like how almost the entire DotNet community uses the NuGet package manager support built into the dotnet SDK binary. There are no extra dependencies to grab your project dependencies and build it.

My experiences in those langauges is that there is so much less debate over tooling, and people just get work done. No one in DotNet is waging an equivelent holy war about Gradle vs Maven etc...

I'm all for choices, but the languages who have made package management a first class citizen in their SDKs tend to be the languages I've enjoyed working in the most. I think package management tooling is a critical piece of developer ergonomics.

People used to joke a lot about how JS has a new framework every week, but I feel that way about Python build tooling! I've now had to use uv, poetry, pipenv, hatch...

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#54

Post by eddythompson80 »

giobox wrote: post #52
aaronvg wrote: post #19

kind of surprised Swift didn't launch with this by default, built in-house

I'm always surprised as well when new languages targeting widespread use launch without an official one. Dotnet/C#, Go and other languages that come batteries included with the package manager built into some kind of compiler/SDK binary, make the out of the box experience so much smoother, and the community hasn't fragmented nearly as much as say Java, Python and JS have into competing third party package management…

I find your choice of examples (dotnet and go) baffling to me. Both enjoyed a very long life (8-10 years) past “1.0” before getting a standard package manager. The other examples, Java, python and JS are significantly older than Go (and even dotnet). Python and JS also had a significantly different intended use (scripting) than where they ended. Expectations of a language and its ecosystem changed. The compiler, linker, build system, package manager, LSP, linter, formatter, debugger, and plenty more are expected of any new language now.

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#55

Post by socalgal2 »

jshier wrote: post #2

Not optimistic here. While I'm glad the SPI guys are getting paid (that is, a full time job), Apple is pretty bad at open source and developer services both, and they explicitly call out developer identity as a future direction, which doesn't fill me with hope.

Not only is Apple bad at open source, they ban participating on open source projects outside of work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200421143520/https://twitter.c...

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#56

Post by giobox »

eddythompson80 wrote: post #54
giobox wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised as well when new languages targeting widespread use launch without an official one. Dotnet/C#, Go and other languages that come batteries included with the package manager built into some kind of compiler/SDK binary, make the out of the box experience so much smoother, and the community hasn't fragmented nearly as much as say Java, Python and JS have into competing third party package management…

I find your choice of examples (dotnet and go) baffling to me. Both enjoyed a very long life (8-10 years) past “1.0” before getting a standard package manager. The other examples, Java, python and JS are significantly older than Go (and even dotnet). Python and JS also had a significantly different intended use (scripting) than where they ended. Expectations of a language and its ecosystem changed. The compiler, link…

All of them pre-exist Swift, so I think it's perfectly fair to compare. Swift wasn't made in a vacuum.

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#57

Post by Uvix »

lenerdenator wrote: post #51
RobMurray wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to get a personal developer account (I'm already a developer through an organisation). The app required a Driver's license as the only accepted ID. I don't drive because I'm blind. They did a screen share and talked me through applying on the web site. It failed. They never gave a reason and ignored me when I asked for one. They just said "Hello Robert, Thank you for your patience while I awaited a response f…

I'm not sure about the laws where you're at, but to me, this sounds like something they should have to accommodate you on.

Don’t jurisdictions generally offer ID cards for non-drivers that are functionally equivalent for ID purposes, you just can’t drive?

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#58

Post by harveynick »

bigyabai wrote: post #29
y1n0 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No true Scotsman…

Even simpler, this is a "no Scotsman" scenario. Apple has unprecedented contempt for Open designs and software standards, even compared to the pitiful example that Microsoft and Google set. Unlike them, Apple takes a stance of contravening the public good to emphasize lock-in. They refused USB-C for as long as possible to sell licensed serial connectors that their Macs didn't even use. They fought tooth-and-nail to p…

Dude. Apple basically created USB-C.

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#59

Post by larkinrichards »

giobox wrote: post #56
eddythompson80 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your choice of examples (dotnet and go) baffling to me. Both enjoyed a very long life (8-10 years) past “1.0” before getting a standard package manager. The other examples, Java, python and JS are significantly older than Go (and even dotnet). Python and JS also had a significantly different intended use (scripting) than where they ended. Expectations of a language and its ecosystem changed. The compiler, link…

All of them pre-exist Swift, so I think it's perfectly fair to compare. Swift wasn't made in a vacuum.

I think you missed it: go and dot net launched without package managers. It was a long time before they had a standard package manager.

Re: Swift Package Index joins Apple

#60

Post by matheusmoreira »

doodpants wrote: post #16
nish__ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Sherlocked mean?

https://thehustle.co/sherlocking-explained

https://www.karelia.com/blog/the-long-story-behind-karel.htm...

> An hour later, Steve Jobs called me.

> "Here's how I see it," Jobs said — I'm loosely paraphrasing.

> "You know those handcars, the little machines that people stand on and pump to move along on the train tracks? That's Karelia. Apple is the steam train that owns the tracks."

> So basically the message was: get out of the way, kid; this is our market.

Hope folks will always keep that in mind as they develop software for proprietary platforms they don't own.

https://www.paulgraham.com/road.html

> If you want to write desktop software now you do it on Microsoft's terms, calling their APIs and working around their buggy OS.

> And if you manage to write something that takes off, you may find that you were merely doing market research for Microsoft.

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