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The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

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Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#51

Post by Llamamoe »

bambax wrote: post #3

> Every memory begins with tiny changes inside the brain Maybe. But the brain is not the only place where memory is stored. Flat worms remember things (and skills!) after their head has been cut off and they regrew it: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapita...

People love to bring this up, but while yes, all cells have some form of memory mechanism or another, with quite the number of nerves outside the brain, we are still a cognitively top-eown organism and quite unlike simpler organisms where the line is blurry.

In machine learning terms, we've basically got a layer or two of neurons responsible for physical memory stored outside the brain, sure. But it's out of dozens if not hundreds total.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#52

Post by coldtea »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #17
bambax wrote: post #3

> Every memory begins with tiny changes inside the brain Maybe. But the brain is not the only place where memory is stored. Flat worms remember things (and skills!) after their head has been cut off and they regrew it: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapita...

"Every memory begins with tiny changes inside the brain. A discovery that helped explain those changes has earned neuroscientist Oswald Steward one of science’s highest honors. Steward received the 2026 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience, a USD 1 million award and one of science’s most prestigious awards, for research that transformed scientists’ understanding of how the brain learns and stores memories." And that's what it…

What's funnier is the implication under which the "objection" is stated, as if those researchers didn't/couldn't know it.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#53

Post by mncharity »

bambax wrote: post #3

> Every memory begins with tiny changes inside the brain Maybe. But the brain is not the only place where memory is stored. Flat worms remember things (and skills!) after their head has been cut off and they regrew it: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapita...

Another flatworms-are-fun story: If you irradiate a flatworm using a nuclear reactor, to kill off its stem-cell equivalents, it sort of "rots" as other cells eventually die and aren't being replaced. If after zap, you insert donor stems, its life can instead proceed normally, and the entire body is eventually refreshed. So ship of Theseus like, you have an individual flatworm, swimming through its life, which ends up being genetically unrelated to its earlier self.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#54

Post by Earw0rm »

fragmede wrote: post #49
Earw0rm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's massive, hugely traumatic surgery, taking the patient past what was considered the point of death a century ago, bringing them back alive, and all with the aid of some of the most powerful drugs in modern medicine's arsenal. And if your heart is needing transplantation in the first place, you'll be running far below optimal for blood O2 and a dozen other things. It'd be more surprising if it didn't result in sig…

> if your heart is needing transplantation in the first place, you'll be running far below optimal for blood O2 and a dozen other things. that's not obvious on the face of it from a mechanical standpoint. I'd you're sick enough to need one, wouldn't we just give you a mechanical temporary replacement, and keep that one going as high as possible instead as low as possible?

By the time you're that sick, you've likely had years of compromised health. That's going to affect personality to some extent.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#55

Post by abc123abc123 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #41
mr_toad wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 47 participants in the online study and a wide variety of psychological issues: “depression, anxiety, psychosis, and sexual dysfunction.”. A few of them found religion. Is anyone surprised that surviving traumatic surgery with a long debilitating recovery time causes mental stress?

> Is anyone surprised that surviving traumatic surgery with a long debilitating recovery time causes mental stress? No, but some of the references reports and studies (referenced in the above study), if truthful, would be too much of a coincidence, no? > a heart and lung transplant at Yale-New Haven hospital in 1988. Following surgery, Sylvia developed a new taste for green peppers and chicken nuggets, foods she prev…

Drugs can alter taste. I've had experience with cancer patients, and a side effect of the treament is that food starts to taste differently. Would not be surprised if the drug+treatment combo of traumatic surgery might result in something similar in some percentage of the patients.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#56

Post by rcxdude »

fragmede wrote: post #49
Earw0rm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's massive, hugely traumatic surgery, taking the patient past what was considered the point of death a century ago, bringing them back alive, and all with the aid of some of the most powerful drugs in modern medicine's arsenal. And if your heart is needing transplantation in the first place, you'll be running far below optimal for blood O2 and a dozen other things. It'd be more surprising if it didn't result in sig…

> if your heart is needing transplantation in the first place, you'll be running far below optimal for blood O2 and a dozen other things. that's not obvious on the face of it from a mechanical standpoint. I'd you're sick enough to need one, wouldn't we just give you a mechanical temporary replacement, and keep that one going as high as possible instead as low as possible?

AFAIK mechanical hearts can be prone to creating blood clots and can put more stress on other parts of the body, so it's not necessarily the safest option to just run it flat out.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#57

Post by embedding-shape »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #55
embedding-shape wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is anyone surprised that surviving traumatic surgery with a long debilitating recovery time causes mental stress? No, but some of the references reports and studies (referenced in the above study), if truthful, would be too much of a coincidence, no? > a heart and lung transplant at Yale-New Haven hospital in 1988. Following surgery, Sylvia developed a new taste for green peppers and chicken nuggets, foods she prev…

Drugs can alter taste. I've had experience with cancer patients, and a side effect of the treament is that food starts to taste differently. Would not be surprised if the drug+treatment combo of traumatic surgery might result in something similar in some percentage of the patients.

But this doesn't seem to be just "taste changed", but literally "taste changed to what the donor had", that's a bit different, at least in my mind.

Again, not claiming "memory sits in the heart", just that it wouldn't be surprising if there was more to it than just in the brain itself.

Re: The discovery that changed how scientists think about memory

#58

Post by Roark66 »

adrianN wrote: post #15
Roark66 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know human overies contain neurons? I suppose memories are not stored there :-) but still the fact is rather surprising.

I believe there are tastebuds in your colon too.

I actually believe you... I was sure I can taste certain spicy things on their way out if you know what I mean :-D
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