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Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

economist.com

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Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#51

Post by vovavili »

mothballed wrote: post #37
Animats wrote: post #36

What, again? Neither of the "Bitcoin island" schemes ever happened. The seasteading people failed to convince anybody that living on an old anchored cruise ship just for a tax break was worth it. The Sea Pod didn't look survivable in a storm. Red Rock Island in San Francisco Bay [1] is apparently for sale again. It was supposedly sold in 2025, but that deal may have fallen through. Nobody built anything on it. Five a…

Libertarians did make an actual island, Republic of Minerva, but the Australian/western and Polynesian governments were so scared shitless of a tiny island of libertarians that they concocted a story about it being "Tongan fishing lands" (despite the fact being way out of Tongan waters and Tonga basically ~never having mentioned it until some other people decided to put an island there). Then they sent the Tongan Nav…

Nothing scares a cartel of coercive monopolies extracting rent from trivial administrative work more than competition.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#52

Post by MichaelZuo »

mothballed wrote: post #46
MichaelZuo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the argument for why their credibility should be taken as higher than the Tonga government claims? Because there clearly could be ulterior motives involved on both sides.

From "might makes right" is Tongan because the Tongans were able to take it. From the perspective of homesteading, owning the fruit of your labor, etc I think you can argue since the Minervans both made the island, homesteaded, "discovered" (didn't exist until they made it), and claimed and were actively using it they have senior property rights (you can argue any of these individually but in summation it's quite wei…

If they have literally no credibility worth speaking of… maybe it just doesn’t matter that much?

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#53

Post by arcfour »

p1necone wrote: post #39
Animats wrote: post #36

What, again? Neither of the "Bitcoin island" schemes ever happened. The seasteading people failed to convince anybody that living on an old anchored cruise ship just for a tax break was worth it. The Sea Pod didn't look survivable in a storm. Red Rock Island in San Francisco Bay [1] is apparently for sale again. It was supposedly sold in 2025, but that deal may have fallen through. Nobody built anything on it. Five a…

I'm eternally disappointed that none of these libertarian projects even manage to survive long enough to hit the "oops we just reinvented government and taxes" stage.

Libertarianism is a spectrum. The majority believe in some form of government, just limited in what it can do to varying degrees. The are also anarchists, yes, but that's not all libertarians.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#55

Post by Shalomboy »

m0llusk wrote: post #49
Animats wrote: post #36

What, again? Neither of the "Bitcoin island" schemes ever happened. The seasteading people failed to convince anybody that living on an old anchored cruise ship just for a tax break was worth it. The Sea Pod didn't look survivable in a storm. Red Rock Island in San Francisco Bay [1] is apparently for sale again. It was supposedly sold in 2025, but that deal may have fallen through. Nobody built anything on it. Five a…

Casting seasteading as a tax avoidance strategy because some loud self proclaimed Libertarians were briefly involved is really sad. Some people really are entranced with the idea of living on the seas and building communities there. Given what goes on with cruise ships and aircraft carriers this isn't even a particularly challenging goal. Put down your aggressively critical politics for a moment and let yourself enjo…

Great username. I too wished to live at sea once, but I gotta be honest with you; hang around any of the big submariner/shipwright/offshore groups for long enough and it will shock you how few people with money in those circles are not Andrew Ryan wannabes. As an avid Cousteau and Earle fan all my life, it broke my heart. If you're uber-wealthy, seeking recognition for that success makes enough sense; that recognition typically comes from people who inevitably live on shore someplace. They might commission a big yacht like Gaben or Zuck, but it serves multiple purposes, not the least of which being "hey, look at me!" But there is a particular type of personality for whom keeping to themselves is the height of luxury, and a couple folks of this persuasion are incredibly wealth. These dragons hoard their keep because, philosophically, it is theirs to do with as they please and not anybody else's. For them, the inherent eroticism of the sea calls their name. I swear to God, it happens every time.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#56

Post by amanaplanacanal »

mothballed wrote: post #46
MichaelZuo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the argument for why their credibility should be taken as higher than the Tonga government claims? Because there clearly could be ulterior motives involved on both sides.

From "might makes right" is Tongan because the Tongans were able to take it. From the perspective of homesteading, owning the fruit of your labor, etc I think you can argue since the Minervans both made the island, homesteaded, "discovered" (didn't exist until they made it), and claimed and were actively using it they have senior property rights (you can argue any of these individually but in summation it's quite wei…

If you can't defend your land, somebody else will eventually take it. That's kind of why governments were invented in the first place.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#58

Post by cosmicgadget »

sampton wrote: post #9
m348e912 wrote: post #4

https://archive.is/gWfRv This article is about a project called "Destiny" ( https://destiny.com ), an economic zone to be created in an undeveloped region of Nevis (of St. Kitts & Nevis) The project goal is to become like Dubai with a 50m dollar investment, which I don't think is an admirable goal btw. St Kitts & Nevis has had a history of being friendly to crypto and there was an initiative to make bitcoin cash lega…

Without a proper supply chain 50m is just a fart in the wind.

It's like a Fyre festival but you live there!

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#59

Post by wolvesechoes »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #32

These projects obviously have limited success. I found it interesting to learn about a couple that were very successful, though. 1) the Republic of Venice from 7th to 18th centuries, basically a merchant-run state controlled by a tight circle of wealthy traders. Its whole setup revolved around safeguarding trade and property and staying clear of the Catholic church and European kings. 2) the Republic of Ragusa from 1…

If you consider them libertarian projects they failed. That's the thing about libertarianism - to succeed it needs to reinvent stuff that it is so opposed to.

Venice and Ragusa (and Genoa) were oligarchic states, had laws, and used force to enforce these laws. Civic liberties were suspended or heavily restricted.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#60

Post by vrganj »

Here's a fun video that goes through the details of a related project, libertarian sea pods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V_FM0mLC0c

Theres a long history of these things being poorly thought out ideological projects by people with too much money and not enough understanding of the real world.

Curious to see the hilarous ways this new wave will fail in.

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