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The rich aren't your role models

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Re: The rich aren't your role models

#51

Post by uberman »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #31
fzeroracer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people have been speculating will happen with the rise of the K-shaped economy. An economy where a smaller and smaller number of consumers are responsible for more and more of consumption. I think the problem is a sort of self-correcting one though because when the cuts start to bleed deep enough that people can no longer afford food or basic amenities that's when people start to get violent. Unfortunate…

That premise is kind of false though. Food stamps are very generous, much to the chagrin of the borderline tax contributors. I think we'll just see benefits slowly ramp up until most people are on benefits, with lots of consternation around government waste along the way.

What state are you in that leads you to belive food stamps are very generous? For example West Virginia (not the lowest) maxs out a family of 4 at about $500 a month.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#52

Post by filup »

wyrdcurt wrote: post #23
thegrim33 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Partisan? I saw no mention of any political party. Hate-filled? Are you sure you don't just disagree? Not arguing that it deserves to be on top or anything, but I thought HN encourages substantive commentary over complaints about the algorithm. Personally I think it's obscene for any individual to be a trillionaire, and in my experience, that's not necessarily partisan; there are many people across the political spec…

Was that guy a billionaire? Sounds like a billionaire comment.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#53

Post by text0404 »

Empact wrote: post #24
fzeroracer wrote: post #7

I wonder what it would take to shake America of the whole 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire' problem. At this point I assume even a hard economic crash pioneered and gleefully supported by the rich isn't enough of a cold water splash. I think that mentality is too locked in for a large subset of Americans. Musk has been increasingly getting more and more rancid and that doesn't seem to deter his supporters at all.

Leftists ask “why don’t Americans hate capitalism,” while Americans live in one of the most prosperous and advanced societies in the world.

Unfortunately, leftists rely on Americans ability to empathize with the plight of the vassal states in the world which have been pillaged and destroyed in service of the most prosperous and advanced societies. It is obvious at this point that Americans do not have empathy and will gladly accept the state of the world as long as they don't have to witness the injustice of it.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#54

Post by flowerthoughts »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #31
fzeroracer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people have been speculating will happen with the rise of the K-shaped economy. An economy where a smaller and smaller number of consumers are responsible for more and more of consumption. I think the problem is a sort of self-correcting one though because when the cuts start to bleed deep enough that people can no longer afford food or basic amenities that's when people start to get violent. Unfortunate…

That premise is kind of false though. Food stamps are very generous, much to the chagrin of the borderline tax contributors. I think we'll just see benefits slowly ramp up until most people are on benefits, with lots of consternation around government waste along the way.

Generally increasing "money supply" will increase the spending floor, which business will eventually use to increase profits, which we read as inflation. (Sorry, I mean they'll do price discovery to optimize corporate ownership benefits.)

As long as the economic system can absorb it (and there are plenty of places with >20% inflation rate that survives,) you're right. But if it makes people feel they have "nothing to lose" on going against the rich, GPs scenario will kick in. Ray Dalio (and the Fourth Turning book) suggests this debt cycle is overstretched, and that we should _expect_ an uprising soon that resets it.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#55

Post by recursivecaveat »

dataflow wrote: post #16

Mostly off-topic, but I've wondered, is there a measure of wealth that involves first liquidating everything? And what is that for Musk? I don't find it meaningful to say someone has a net worth of $X if they can't actually liquidate their assets and pay off their liabilities to produce $X.

It's usually not that different from just amount * marginal market value, such that its not generally worth worrying about the distinction. The main reasons you can't dump 1 trillion dollars of stock at once is it would be difficult to find enough buyer capital quickly, and announcing your intention to do that is going to drop the price as you're implying an overvaluation.

Both of those problems can be solved if you just do it slowly in a pre-announced manner. A trillion is a thousand billions, so you could cash out 1 billion dollars annually until the 30th century assuming zero growth/inflation. So unless you're really worried about the optics of selling 0.1% of your holdings, or plan to spend more than 1 billion a year outside your business, you're not really constrained.

Everything is liquid in a long enough time horizon. It just depends on what you mean by liquidating. Like do I have to sell my house today? In a week? Months? More flexibility = more value.

For Musk the situation is definitely more extreme though. Since a significant part of that valuation is attached to him owning it, he would definitely take an abnormal level of haircut. Probably an unknowable investor sentiment question though.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#57

Post by tim333 »

mrtomservo wrote: post #9

I wonder if unchecked capital accumulation combined with cutting the social safety net and major public works will lead to commerce without customers: An economy built on consumption where nobody has the money to consume.

It's unlikely because governments actively try to avoid that even if it means printing money. Also commerce needs customers or it fails.

Screw ups where that kind of thing has happened like the Irish potato famine, which was mostly a result of crap British governance are mostly avoided these days.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#58

Post by archagon »

derektank wrote: post #29
fzeroracer wrote: post #7

I wonder what it would take to shake America of the whole 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire' problem. At this point I assume even a hard economic crash pioneered and gleefully supported by the rich isn't enough of a cold water splash. I think that mentality is too locked in for a large subset of Americans. Musk has been increasingly getting more and more rancid and that doesn't seem to deter his supporters at all.

One doesn’t have to imagine themselves a future millionaire to be wary of granting the state the ability to confiscate private property. There’s a very real risk that they’ll come for the modern equivalent of the kulaks next.

Americans: terrified of an imagined threat, completely oblivious to the active threat right in front of them.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#59

Post by RajT88 »

anon291 wrote: post #21
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all moving to a service economy for the wealthy as the only consumers. You can see this most dramatically in Las Vegas right now: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwU4lQ46nA

This is because America builds nothing anymore. Consider Disneyland. It's expensive as hell. But also there are more people in America than ever. You'd think they'd have built another one, but they haven't. Why?

Disney world does not count?

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#60

Post by anon291 »

RajT88 wrote: post #59
anon291 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because America builds nothing anymore. Consider Disneyland. It's expensive as hell. But also there are more people in America than ever. You'd think they'd have built another one, but they haven't. Why?

Disney world does not count?

When was Disney world built? Why can nothing be built anymore. Disney is but one example.

People complain about data centers due to electricity. We have technology to generate infinite electricity yet the answer is to not build rather than build both the utilities and the data centers. Everyone would benefit from more availability of energy

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