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Kirkland Roundabouts

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Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#51

Post by dwd »

testing22321 wrote: post #48
faxmeyourcode wrote: post #40

A town I grew up in went absolutely crazy with roundabouts over the last 10 years or so. They built them everywhere. Most are pretty straightforward and they simplify traffic a ton but there were some bad design choices made. Take this similarly confusing double-roundabout for example https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTSrSWsBGnsYyzKU6 There are accidents here almost every week and when an out of towner comes off the interstat…

I grew up in a town in Australia nicknamed “the city of roundabouts.” Four way stops simply don’t exist. When well designed, roundabouts are excellent for traffic flow and reducing accidents and severity of accidents. If I was king for a day I’d replace all four way stops with them.

Grew up in windy Warrnambool. Guessing you are from my home town or Albury, WA.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#52

Post by kimixa »

rich_sasha wrote: post #39

I assumed it would be like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst... . Instead, topologically, it is a normal roundabout, just with unusual (negative) curvatures. The linked ones, also called "magic roundabouts", are roundabout rings made out of roundabouts . In particular, you can take them clockwise or anticlockwise - it i…

They're really simple - arguably the problem is people try to treat them as a single complex unit rather than just "5 junctions in a row". Trying to think of them as a whole is rather pointless and self defeating, as there's no real advantage to doing so.

Most people have no problems with the idea of a road network loop - such as around a block - but that's exactly the same thing from a driving point of view.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#53

Post by testing22321 »

strken wrote: post #49
testing22321 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a town in Australia nicknamed “the city of roundabouts.” Four way stops simply don’t exist. When well designed, roundabouts are excellent for traffic flow and reducing accidents and severity of accidents. If I was king for a day I’d replace all four way stops with them.

I don't think Australia has many true four way stops in cities and towns. Usually there's a give way sign on two of the directions, or lights, or a roundabout. Unmarked intersections do exist, mostly on bush tracks and backroads, but I don't think I've ever seen the four stop sign arrangement here in Vic. Apparently it's slightly more common in NSW.

As far as I’m aware they are nonexistent. I’ve driven a lot of the country and never seen one.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#54

Post by tolien »

dwd wrote: post #12

That is a very basic roundabout. I was expecting by "magic" that you would have to go round some part in reverse (clockwise for US left-hand driving). This is nothing compared to the original "magic" roundabout of Swindon, Wiltshire. This interchange might have been better off using a diverging diamond interchange layout [1]. While not a roundabout they are "magic" and we should use them more often. They just look co…

> This is nothing compared to the original "magic" roundabout of Swindon, Wiltshire.

There should be a law (I'd suggest Dougal's Law) describing how any discussion of road design will inevitably lead to a mention of the Magic Roundabout :D

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#56

Post by entropicdrifter »

WalterBright wrote: post #45
GauntletWizard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because nobody goes that way anymore - It's too much of a time sink, significantly because you never end up where you want to go. Instead the real crossing points got even more crowded, or were until this abomination got installed. Thankfully, I literally sold my house because of it, and my timing was good and I got out before prices dropped.

Another reason it's way better is because of all the time spent waiting at a red light when there's zero cross traffic. The traffic lights all have cameras now, you'd think the traffic engineers would hook it up to AI and optimize the lights. But no. A taste of what that would be like is when all the power goes out, including the power to the traffic lights. Traffic moves faster ! Because drivers cooperate. Traffic a…

The lights in my small Pennsylvania town just got cameras and do seem to be using ML to recognize traffic build-up and optimize dynamically for traffic flow. Pretty cool stuff.

I think the real reason they were installed was because of a new state law that goes into effect this July where you'll be fined if you're spotted holding a smartphone by a traffic cam. Still, the faster light changes are quite welcome.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#57

Post by autoexec »

AngryData wrote: post #10
dlcarrier wrote: post #4

I swear if the US could build regular roundabouts, converting an intersection would make the accident rate go down, instead of up.

From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive. That said I have yet to drive through a roundabout that I think improved an intersection in any meaningful way. Half of them work as intended but I find them less pleasant to drive through, the other half are just horribly designed and often have semitrucks go through them when…

> From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive.

That's the argument I keep hearing, but I'm not sure I buy it. Fewer people might be injured physically but even low speed accidents can cost thousands in repairs if not total your car, so going from a few people being hurt a year to multiple people losing their cars or being forced to pay out thousands every few weeks doesn't seem like a win to me.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#58

Post by mikestew »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #56
WalterBright wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason it's way better is because of all the time spent waiting at a red light when there's zero cross traffic. The traffic lights all have cameras now, you'd think the traffic engineers would hook it up to AI and optimize the lights. But no. A taste of what that would be like is when all the power goes out, including the power to the traffic lights. Traffic moves faster ! Because drivers cooperate. Traffic a…

The lights in my small Pennsylvania town just got cameras and do seem to be using ML to recognize traffic build-up and optimize dynamically for traffic flow. Pretty cool stuff. I think the real reason they were installed was because of a new state law that goes into effect this July where you'll be fined if you're spotted holding a smartphone by a traffic cam. Still, the faster light changes are quite welcome.

…a new state law that goes into effect this July where you'll be fined if you're spotted holding a smartphone by a traffic cam.

Wait, what?! I’m at a loss as to the behavior they’re trying to curb with such a law.

EDIT: OIC, it’s not “using a phone near a traffic cam”, it’s “using a phone while driving (even at a stop light) and a traffic cam captures you doing it”.

Somewhat relevant: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/new-pa-ban-on-cel...

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#59

Post by tomfakes »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44
smithkl42 wrote: post #6

I've been driving roundabouts for decades, and think they're great - they really help with traffic flow. I've never found them confusing. I had to drive this specific Kirkland roundabout the other day, and ended up missing my offramp and going in completely the wrong direction. It's the most confusing roundabout I've ever seen.

I live moments away from this roundabout. It's confusing. Single-lane roundabouts are really straightforward. You're either clear to enter, or you're not. Adding lanes makes it far more confusing. I consider myself, you know, pretty smart. Not stupid, at least. But I almost sideswiped someone in this roundabout the other day. Years of driving experience gave me an intuition that the middle lane would not cross over t…

I too live nearby

The lanes are quite narrow, and the outer curb is deceptive - there’s a 1” edge with a curved curb behind it making it look wider than it actually is. Scraping along that edge will push cars into the center of the road. There will be a lot of minor accidents here due to the road design.

One other second order effect - people are getting used to roundabouts here now, but nearby are ‘traffic circles’ that are roundabouts with stop signs on some entrances. People are now ignoring those stop signs (because it’s a roundabout!). I almost hit 3 cars in 2 intersections as people ignored their stop sign.

Re: Kirkland Roundabouts

#60

Post by gs17 »

Freedom2 wrote: post #13
maest wrote: post #7

I'm all for hating bad infrastructure, but this roundabout seems pretty straightforward? Maybe it's different when you're actually driving on it, but from a topdown view it's clear it's a central roundabout with some extra sidelanes to avoid the roundabout if you're immediately turning right.

Talking to my American colleagues, they're often perplexed by roundabouts and don't really understand how they fundamentally work. They're also incredibly stubborn when it comes to convincing them that it helps with traffic flow immensely versus a 4 way stop sign.

I almost like them, but my commute long ago involved one that revealed a frustrating pathological case. Constant traffic flow in one direction can make an entrance entirely unusable. It makes the average trip more efficient, but the worst case becomes dramatically worse.
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