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Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

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Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#51

Post by nozzlegear »

AmazingTurtle wrote: post #44

I was wondering "use" means here, as-in.. does it not recirculate? And apparently the answer seems to be: it's circulated/vaporized into the air. It may fall down as rain somewhere else, not necessarily in the local area where the water was withdrawn from, effectively draining the water from the local area at least. Also, I was wondering, what does 2.5B gallons of water equate to? Here's the answer for curious minds:…

> So the AWS data centers make up roughly an additional 0.01% of daily water usage. Why is this worth a bloomberg article?

I live somewhere that's had a lot of interest from companies wanting to put up new data centers (northwest Iowa, southwest Minnesota – open farmland basically). The water usage thing is easily the top concern/grievance that people cite in their arguments against data centers.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#52

Post by goda90 »

scrumper wrote: post #29

This water usage argument against data centers is so specious I almost think it's spread as a deliberate talking point by DC proponents. Power consumption and effect on electricity infrastructure is so, so, so much more consequential and dangerous. It alone is way more than enough on which to base a very solid anti-DC campaign. The water argument weakens the whole anti-DC position by being so refutable. EDIT: with pr…

We should never assume any aquifer can be used up lightly, whether Utah or in a rainforest. Droughts are going to become more common, and not only does a lower water table impact other human activities, but also plants that have deep roots and anything relying on natural springs that might dry up faster if we're wasting a bunch on evaporative cooling.

Demanding closed loop cooling is just as important as demanding self built renewable power for new data centers.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#53

Post by matt-p »

jawns wrote: post #26

I am curious about the energy/expense of getting water that has been "consumed" by data centers ready for other use (e.g. drinking water), versus the energy/expense of getting water that has been "consumed" by residential users ready for the same use. To my understanding, the only thing that changes when water is used for data centers is its temperature. That's a lot different than residential use, where it's used in…

Yeah the main problem is just that the cheapest/easiest way of getting rid of heat is evaporation*. Once it's evaporated it's obviously not economic to try and get it back at that point. You could have a closed loop system sinking heat into a lake or the sea, even better it could go into a heat network heating peoples homes. All those things are just more 'hard' than ordering a cooling tower.

* In air-cooled datacentres an approach is "direct evaporative cooling". They might take 30°C outside air and spray a fine mist into it, cooling it to perhaps 25°C before it enters the servers. After passing through the servers the air might leave at around 38°C. The water is now dispersed as humidity in a large volume of exhaust air. Recovering that water would require condensing it back out of the air, which means removing huge amounts of latent heat, it would be cheaper to just use 'traditional' compressor based cooling in the first place.

Cooling towers (which are used in many 'ai' facilities) have essentially the same problem. Servers reject heat into a water loop, and the cooling tower then cools that water by evaporating a portion of it into the atmosphere. The water that leaves as vapour is the "consumed" portion. While some liquid water remains in the system and a small amount is discharged as concentrated blowdown that can be treated and reused relatively easily, the majority of the consumed water has been converted into atmospheric moisture as above.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#54

Post by goda90 »

rafram wrote: post #6

> 2.5 billion gallons of water worldwide last year, or about 5% of the amount metro Seattle consumes annually That doesn't seem like that much, really. The Seattle metro area isn't huge; that consumption is only 0.7% of New York's, and Amazon runs the largest network of data centers in the world.

With any water use, I'd say it's important to examine how the water gets back into the system. Does it return to the same source or end up elsewhere? Does it return clean, treated, or polluted? If it evaporates, where is that vapor most likely to end up?

A lot of ways people use water can actually end up back in the source area after treatment. That should be considered differently than water evaporated in a desert that rarely receives rains.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#55

Post by bensyverson »

jimz wrote: post #40
bensyverson wrote: post #22

I spoke to someone who owns data centers recently. He said that in hot climates, they run closed-loop to preserve water, so the actual water use is virtually nothing. In Chicago (where we have no water shortage), they consume water—but it just evaporates and re-enters the water cycle.

Yep, that's how they do it in here Vegas. Datacenter water use isn't the problem, the state law mandating 15% of electricity must be bought from the privately owned state utility monopoly is.

Agreed; power is an entirely different (and less rosy) discussion

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#56

Post by pixl97 »

morpheos137 wrote: post #33

the water cycle exists. unless data centers are being built in deserts or run off fossil aquifers the or other water constrained circumstance the waste is supurious. As other commenters have said closed loop cooling exists. Billions of motor vehicles run on water based cooling and consume virtually nothing once filled.

Part of it is they are being built in places that have water issues already or ones in the middle to long term future. Central to west Texas is a good example of these.

They are being built with evaporative cooling which is not closed loop.

With that said, the vast majority of the yelling about water issues is overblown, power issues are far more likely to be a problem.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#57

Post by matt-p »

nevir wrote: post #48
criddell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the golf courses around here use reclaimed water (treated effluent). Hopefully data centers aren't using potable water.

They hook into industrial water supplies (usually not potable, unless the utility has no other option)

I would say that is the exception rather than the rule (potable is normal).

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#58

Post by hyperhello »

ape4 wrote: post #49
hyperhello wrote: post #8

What is it for data centers to use water, precisely? To take cool water in and run it through pipes to produce warm water, then send it to rivers?

Couldn't they reuse the water - after it cooled down.

Apparently in a closed loop cooling system they do, but in areas where water just runs off the mountains they use evaporation and it reenters the water cycle.

I had to say I was wondering why basic non polluting water use would need special attention like this. Apparently it’s a PR meme to divert attention from real problems.

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#59

Post by loremium »

scrumper wrote: post #29

This water usage argument against data centers is so specious I almost think it's spread as a deliberate talking point by DC proponents. Power consumption and effect on electricity infrastructure is so, so, so much more consequential and dangerous. It alone is way more than enough on which to base a very solid anti-DC campaign. The water argument weakens the whole anti-DC position by being so refutable. EDIT: with pr…

doesn't mean we won't run out of drinking water in our lifetime

Re: Amazon Says Its Data Centers Use 2.5B Gallons of Water

#60

Post by jimz »

criddell wrote: post #13
Aurornis wrote: post #4

2.5 billion gallons per year. The US uses about 2 billion gallons of water per day on golf courses.

A lot of the golf courses around here use reclaimed water (treated effluent). Hopefully data centers aren't using potable water.

Lake Las Vegas, the biggest user by far, is at 82% reclaimed. The Las Vegas Valley Water Authority's name-and-shame list for water use is still FOIA-able (last year's, obviously). https://archive.org/details/top-commercial-water-users-south...
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