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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#51
post #6
post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

Hm. Are there any difference in the consequences for the immigrants, if they are kicked out because of arbitrary population cap, instead of anti-migration laws?

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to think "Switzerland out of Schengen" isn't. It's a small, landlocked country, surrounded on all sides by Schengen nations, that until recently delegated air defense to the EU outside of their air force's office hours . https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swis...

I already pass through Swiss customs when driving in, so it makes virtually no difference to me besides slowing things down at the border potentially.

Schengen covers border controls (i.e. immigration/visits), not customs ones (the stuff you bring with).

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#54
post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#55
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. Are there any difference in the consequences for the immigrants, if they are kicked out because of arbitrary population cap, instead of anti-migration laws?

As far as I understand, action begins when the population hits 9.5M, so likely no-one gets kicked out, but fewer new visas will be approved, etc.

This. As immigrant I don't feel threatened by this at all. I can't vote, and I wouldn't vote for SVP but as far as I can tell this makes kinda sense.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#56
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's being proposed in order to maintain quality of life. No one wants to be overcrowded. This is a sane solution: collectively agree on the maximum tolerable population. Then it's down to individual responsibility to obey the norms of one's society. Edit: unless you're Swiss, your opinion is irrelevant. Swiss voters have a right to decide how they want to live. They're not beholden to EU laws; they can make their ow…

There’s never anything sane with population caps by fiat. If that’s a form of insanity they wish to indulge though, then democracy allows them that.

> There’s never anything sane with population caps by fiat

Why? It’s repressive if done to cap a natively-growing population, since that means government controlling reproduction (à la one-child policy). But government has controlled immigration for generations.

I’m asking as someone who is genuinely on the fence on this vote.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#58
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

how did they ever survive in the pre-EU/schengen/EEC era?

Divorce is harder than a wedding.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#59
The strong point of the Swiss political system is that the government is, by (EDIT) convention, made up by all significant parties. No major political force can say “if only we were in power...” because they already are. Also, no party can create disasters and then disappear and leave the consequences to the following election winners to deal with.

This referendum is an attempt by the members of SVP/UDC, the right-most party, to show that on immigration topics they have more popular support than what their relative power in the government is. Their proposed solution is very crude, on the other hand the opposition parties' position is basically “do nothing, everything is going fine”. I would have hoped the government to offer some kind of compromise proposal (which they are allowed to do and appears as third option in many referendums), but it seems the Swiss citizens will be faced with a “all or nothing” choice.

As a novel immigrant, as much as I appreciate the political system of my new host country, I was quite disappointed by the referendum campaign from both sides. Most of the propaganda concerning this vote has emotional and apocalytic tones (“the immigrants will steal our welfare and overpopulation will transform Switzerland into Kowloon” vs “we will become a pariah state, our pensioners will die unassisted due to the lack of nurses, EU will tariff us to death”).

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#60

As a voting member of the population all I can say is - good luck winning it… We have silly initiatives once in a while, that’s because you don’t need that much to start one.

Don’t be so quick.

You know full well that the polls are 52% no. It will be a razor thin rejection and the SVP will try again until they find one that passes.

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