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Why China got rich and India didn't

davidoks.blog

51–60 of 84 posts

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#51
The article has the "rough" idea correct - how could it not be- but is quite stupid in a sort of cliched Chrisitian-missionary / colonialism sort of way.

It talks about how Chinese society was completely destroyed and instantly "modernized" (read, liberal, secular-Christian etc.), and is one step removed from claiming that India too needs this "total destruction".

The article notes about "traditional evils like Dowry or Female Foeticide" like some cliched missionary in British India begging patrons for funding (also the tactic of many a NGOs) - but fails to mention that every one of these issues come from exactly this "societal smashing" created by the "Great" (TM) British civilizers, and their eugenics obsessed American counterparts [1][2]. The latter even talks about how obssesed with killing children the American elites were that they didn't even spare their allies China and South Korea (an unthinkable thing to today Yellow-Fevered zietgeist).

The article barely touches on how the colonial Indian state survived in nearly the same exact form, and pretty much implements the same old British policies to this day. Indeed, the constitution of India is a near facsimile of the 1935 Government of India Act. passed in the British Parliament to secure their vice-grip on the colony and choke it to death.

In India, education remains restricted to the 5-10% Anglophones, and everyone else is considered pretty much "not human". These policies come out from Indian-looking Anglo elites who hate the country to the very core, and don't face push back since even the counter-elites have to come from the same process of colonial education [3].

This is pretty much why India punches, in every field, as a country 1/10 the size. The Anglo-Americans don't complain, since they get slaves for cheap who willingly become part of the Anglo-American borg (like colonized Africa, Phillipines etc.), and it also satisfies their deep religio-cultural obsession with turning everything into be a mirror of themselves by "societal smashing".

This "societal-smashing" business and "lets turn everything American!" scheme of liberalism will die with the societies whom it exhausts into exhaustion and extinction. The breakdown of social-cohesion and drop of birth-rates, coupled without the necessary financial power to "marketize" society (Anglo-utilitarianism is obsessed with "marketizing" everything), this will "fix" itself in half-a-century.

The signs are quite obvious. I hope the Elephant remains a witness.

[1]. Oldenburg, Veena Talwar. Dowry murder: The imperial origins of a cultural crime. Oxford University Press, 2002.

[2]. Hvistendahl, Mara. Unnatural selection: Choosing boys over girls, and the consequences of a world full of men. Public Affairs, 2011.

[3]. Sanu, Sankrant. "The English class system." South Asian Language Review 17, no. 1 (2007): 69-85.

https://sankrant.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/The-English-...

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#52
post #4

If the author is reading - China is a single party nation state, India is a union of states. Dive into the metrics of states, you will find everything from Sub-sharan Africa levels of HDI to the ones that compete with European countries.

China has more political parties in parliament than the USA. Stop spreading FUD

Their only role is to clap, cheer, and show approval. I can say with responsibility that there is no meaningful voting in China.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#53
post #15

The comment under does make sense. We have to explain Taiwan, Korea, and Japan as well. If the difference is 1950s actions then Taiwan in particular is unexplained, having diverged in 1949. Though the cotton mill productivity does challenge the idea that it’s genetics or something inherent. Interesting problem for sure.

The easiest issue to explain is the Taiwan question. In 1949, Taiwan stripped China of all its gold reserves and its entire elite class, leaving the Chinese mainland with nothing but a shambles. Furthermore, following the Korean War in 1950, the United States backed Taiwan in imposing a comprehensive blockade on China's coastline; this plunged China into a state of total hostility with the U.S.and, by extension, with the entire Western bloc. By the later stages of the Cold War, this situation had become even more dire: Khrushchev threatened to launch a "surgical" nuclear strike against China, while Eisenhower devised a strike plan involving 870 nuclear warheads. Here was an agrarian nation facing simultaneous nuclear threats from two major superpowers; under such circumstances, any discussion of economic development was nothing short of a luxury.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#54
post #50

I think the caste system is what’s hampering social and economic progress in India (or at least partially). It’s a sort of game theory stuff here. A structured class hierarchy makes it inherently more difficult for individuals to challenge the authority in power, even under the democratic government. The system imposes an additional risk of social backlash/punishment/retaliation for anyone who attempts to disrupt the…

But does it matter whether you can challenge authority or disrupt the established order? Because surely it’s even harder to do those things in China. And India’s people seems to me to be too little order, not too much.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#56
post #45
post #34

The article didn’t mention what I think is the single most important reason: the ability to align local governments with the central government. You can design the best policies in the world, but it’s local governments that actually implement them. The Great Chinese Famine was a prime example of this. Mao became the scapegoat, but he wasn’t as detached from reality or as blindly idealistic as many people make him out…

Lee Kwan Yew identified this shortcoming along with the issue of many factions in India. Due to its huge diversity there is little pan-national alignment -everyone wants their own thing and prioritizes accordingly. Here's me Lee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTNpw0-wAk

The interesting thing about this is that China’s homogeneity is a result of ethnogenesis. 90% of the country is “Han Chinese,” but people in different parts of the country look very different and their dialects of “Chinese” aren’t mutually intelligible. It’s kind of like if you took everyone from AOC to Tim Walz and relabeled them all “British American.”

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#57
post #54
post #50

I think the caste system is what’s hampering social and economic progress in India (or at least partially). It’s a sort of game theory stuff here. A structured class hierarchy makes it inherently more difficult for individuals to challenge the authority in power, even under the democratic government. The system imposes an additional risk of social backlash/punishment/retaliation for anyone who attempts to disrupt the…

But does it matter whether you can challenge authority or disrupt the established order? Because surely it’s even harder to do those things in China. And India’s people seems to me to be too little order, not too much.

Yeah, you got a very good point there. Yes, it may seem very weird, but that’s because China was not playing the game.

The game that I suggested earlier assumes that (1) those in power seek to maximize their gains, (2) and such behavior is NOT aligned with social gains. So, basically, a never-ending arms race between the authority and the people. (check Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes if you’re interested)

However, China (and also South Korea) got a weird alignment in interests between the authoritarian government and the people — both of them somehow sought after national economic growth. Since their interests are already aligned, they didn’t play the game that I suggested above.

I think such alignment cannot be reproduced through games nor social interaction b/w powers — rather, it is more of a humane part of the history.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#58
Here’s my take as an Indian having lived in cities like Mumbai, Hyderabad and Bengaluru

1. No manufacturing expertise in India, we aren’t a manufacturing powerhouse despite having similar levels of population as China. We have always prioritised services. That has an inherent limit.

2. Local governments here are powerless. I don’t have the source for this but only about 3% of public spending is done by local governments at the municipal level. Even for “rich” cities, local governments although are wealthy they are always controlled by whoever has power at the state level. It’s why Indian cities have such decrepit infrastructure vis a vis China.

3. Caste based politics and more recently freebies based politics. Recently, state governments all over India have been all out bribing voters with cash transfers if voted to power. This won’t bode well for long term financial stability. This is also short term thinking at its finest. They have run out of ideas.

4. Weak rule of law. There’s a huge backlog of cases in our justice system right from Supreme Court to the local courts. Doing business in India can backfire in spectacular ways (inordinate tax demands by union government etc).

Entire studies can be done but these are top 4 things keeping India where it is.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#59

Here’s my take as an Indian having lived in cities like Mumbai, Hyderabad and Bengaluru 1. No manufacturing expertise in India, we aren’t a manufacturing powerhouse despite having similar levels of population as China. We have always prioritised services. That has an inherent limit. 2. Local governments here are powerless. I don’t have the source for this but only about 3% of public spending is done by local governme…

No. 4 doesn’t really make sense as a disadvantage relative to China.

Re: Why China got rich and India didn't

#60
I don’t know much about the situation in India. But this article paints an overly rosy picture of China.

In my view, there are some people in China who don’t treat a significant portion of the population as human beings. Moreover, the Chinese are very keen on stepping on others to get ahead.

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