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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#51

Post by gosub100 »

cromka wrote: post #43
Aurornis wrote: post #18

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed. I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models. However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499…

This. People really underestimate or straight up ignore resale value of Apple products. Just because you can upgrade a Framework laptop it doesn't make it a better value over the long term.

Can't believe the cost of the trash can mac pros. I always wanted one and put it on my long term to-do list, but they're still $500+. Even if they can be had for less, I won't buy one because my tolerance for tinkering has since dwindled. But it's quite a testament that they are still that expensive.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#52

Post by quickquack »

I have a Framework 12 and I absolutely love it. It's cute and super portable, and the 12-inch form factor is just perfect.

Sure, the hardware might not be the newest, but it's more than enough for me since I mostly do remote development. Plus, it has 48 GB of RAM, which lets me load the entire system into memory, making it feel super responsive.

But what I love most is how durable it is, which matters a lot because I'm honestly pretty careless with my stuff. Just yesterday, I grabbed my backpack off the table without realizing it was open. My Framework went flying across the entire room and slammed into the wall, and there wasn't even a single scratch on it. An aluminum laptop would've had a nasty dent at the very least.

And even if the whole frame had shattered, I could just order a new one for 55 dollars. Same story with the keyboard. One of the keys was making this annoying clicking sound, so I just detached it, stuck a little piece of tape underneath, and it was good as new. I only felt comfortable doing that because I knew that worst case, I could get a whole new keyboard for 55 dollars.

Honestly, not having to handle my laptop carefully is worth so much to me. I also don't stress about battery care, whatever to preserve long-term battery life, because replacing the battery costs, you guessed it, 55 dollars.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#53

Post by tracker1 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #40
noelsusman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Framework would disagree that their target market consists solely of people ideologically opposed to owning Apple hardware.

They might disagree with that framing, but it does seem to be the majority of folks I see who are interested in them. And I'm not saying that as a negative - my Framework 13 is my favorite laptop by a fairly wide margin, but it's clearly not at the hardware level of my work issued mac. Apple produces fantastic hardware. It's a shame I can't stand them as a company, and that they cripple that hardware with their OS. P…

> But a mac hands-down the best hardware you can get for a personal laptop right now

That's pretty much almost always been the case with Mac laptops though. Last Intel gen(s) aside for heat at the top end.

I find that Apple's overall build quality, display and touchpads have pretty much always been second to none... I like the keyboards on most Thinkpads, especially historically, more than Apple's though. That said, being able to run Linux proper has become a higher priority... I plan to continue using my M1 air until it dies or I can't stand it anymore... but I bought it with 16gb ram and a bigger drive, so it does what I need and then some.

I don't "work" on it, so that isn't a big deal and I can remote edit in VS Code to my desktop via wireguard+ssh wherever I am with internet access. That could be a differentiator, but my vision is so bad, I probably won't be able to get away with the maxed out display on any laptop eventually.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#54

Post by mingus88 »

marssaxman wrote: post #47
Aurornis wrote: post #18

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed. I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models. However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499…

> if someone isn't choosing by OS first. What a surprising idea! I have always and only ever chosen by OS first. Are there really a significant number of people willing to buy a computer with no concern for the type of software it will be able to run?

Outside of tech professionals, yes.

It’s 2026 and what people don’t do in an app, they mostly do in a browser. An entire generation of “digital native” people are now adults who don’t even understand what a file system is, don’t understand folder structures, and don’t care what OS they run.

That said, having a computer that seamlessly integrates with their mobile device is a huge feature. So the MacBook neo not only being so affordable but fitting into the Apple ecosystem is a slam dunk for normal people

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#55

Post by Aurornis »

marssaxman wrote: post #47
Aurornis wrote: post #18

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed. I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models. However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499…

> if someone isn't choosing by OS first. What a surprising idea! I have always and only ever chosen by OS first. Are there really a significant number of people willing to buy a computer with no concern for the type of software it will be able to run?

> Are there really a significant number of people willing to buy a computer with no concern for the type of software it will be able to run?

Most common software that typical buyers use is available on Mac or Windows: Web browsers, office software, maybe an e-mail client.

This is why Chromebooks are a viable option, too.

Even my software development workflows are mostly cross-platform when I think about it. I can run all of my IDEs and text editors on my Mac, Windows, and Linux computers.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#56

Post by jerlam »

marssaxman wrote: post #47
Aurornis wrote: post #18

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed. I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models. However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499…

> if someone isn't choosing by OS first. What a surprising idea! I have always and only ever chosen by OS first. Are there really a significant number of people willing to buy a computer with no concern for the type of software it will be able to run?

Most regular users do everything via the web, where there is little difference between the OSes. Gaming is the only thing that comes to mind where regular users notice a dramatic difference.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#57

Post by slopinthebag »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #44
slopinthebag wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacBooks don't need as much ram - I have an m1 air with 8gb of ram and it's perfectly serviceable, I can even run IntelliJ on it...

Compared to what? Not really true, and hard on the swap drive. Penny-wise meet pound.

Well it's still kicking just fine years later, shrug

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#58

Post by racl101 »

devmor wrote: post #38
racl101 wrote: post #32

Never understood the people who keep saying Macbooks are expensive. They make it sound like unreasonably expensive. Sure maybe before the Intel Macs in 2006. But for the last 20 years they've been not the cheapest but not the most expensive either. And when you factor all the time you waste on Windows, especially at the time Windows Vista, which had insane memory requirements, and compared them to Mac Os (X at the ti…

MacBooks are only expensive when you need performance upgrades, the base models are really not that bad for what you get. But if you want to add a little more to your spec sheet, you might as well go somewhere else.

That's true. Even a slight memory or storage bump up is more than if you were to DIY. I guess convenience is where they get you.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#59

Post by mingus88 »

gosub100 wrote: post #51
cromka wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People really underestimate or straight up ignore resale value of Apple products. Just because you can upgrade a Framework laptop it doesn't make it a better value over the long term.

Can't believe the cost of the trash can mac pros. I always wanted one and put it on my long term to-do list, but they're still $500+. Even if they can be had for less, I won't buy one because my tolerance for tinkering has since dwindled. But it's quite a testament that they are still that expensive.

I mean, you have always wanted one. Can you say the same thing about any other PC?

You understand the demand for them. It’s you.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#60

Post by sekh60 »

quickquack wrote: post #52

I have a Framework 12 and I absolutely love it. It's cute and super portable, and the 12-inch form factor is just perfect. Sure, the hardware might not be the newest, but it's more than enough for me since I mostly do remote development. Plus, it has 48 GB of RAM, which lets me load the entire system into memory, making it feel super responsive. But what I love most is how durable it is, which matters a lot because I…

The repair ability is why I went with a Framework. My last two laptops had keyboards that lasted until a few months after the warranty. Rest of the laptop works, but I can't find replacement keyboards at a reasonable price. So a framework, and I bought a spare keyboard upfront on the off chance they go bankrupt.
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