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Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

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Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#51

Post by epolanski »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #48
sph wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Italian as well and love the joke, but it always makes it sound like any other culture doesn’t use their hands to convey meaning, which is obviously false. I do not notice a large difference between a northern Italian like me and any other American speaker, for instance. Of course there will be a noticeable increase in gesticulation in an angry southern Italian person compared to a mild-mannered Englishman droni…

> Of course there will be a noticeable increase in gesticulation in an angry southern Italian person compared to a mild-mannered Englishman droning about philosophy. > Perhaps the difference lies not in the amount of gesturing, but in the heightened emotions of us southern Europeans. As someone that has familial ties to both England and Sicily, although people on average are more overtly expressive in Southern Europe…

Britons vacationing in Greece have to be among the least mild mannered people on earth.

Of course, it's the "hooligan effect", where the 2% paints a bad picture of the whole.

Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#52

Post by macintux »

I watched a guy driving on the interstate, one hand holding his phone to his ear, the other hand gesturing wildly, zero hands on the wheel (a few years before there was any car available that could conceivably be even so much as lane following).

Priorities, people, priorities.

Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#53

Post by fsckboy »

macintux wrote: post #52

I watched a guy driving on the interstate, one hand holding his phone to his ear, the other hand gesturing wildly, zero hands on the wheel (a few years before there was any car available that could conceivably be even so much as lane following). Priorities, people, priorities.

i hold the steering wheel with my knee all the time, and make reasonable corrections, curves on highways are pretty gentle. the key is to be disciplined about paying attention to the road ahead.

Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#54

Post by macintux »

fsckboy wrote: post #53
macintux wrote: post #52

I watched a guy driving on the interstate, one hand holding his phone to his ear, the other hand gesturing wildly, zero hands on the wheel (a few years before there was any car available that could conceivably be even so much as lane following). Priorities, people, priorities.

i hold the steering wheel with my knee all the time, and make reasonable corrections, curves on highways are pretty gentle. the key is to be disciplined about paying attention to the road ahead.

If you're on the phone gesturing wildly to communicate with someone who can't see you, by definition you're not being disciplined.

Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#55

Post by ZenoArrow »

epolanski wrote: post #51
ZenoArrow wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course there will be a noticeable increase in gesticulation in an angry southern Italian person compared to a mild-mannered Englishman droning about philosophy. > Perhaps the difference lies not in the amount of gesturing, but in the heightened emotions of us southern Europeans. As someone that has familial ties to both England and Sicily, although people on average are more overtly expressive in Southern Europe…

Britons vacationing in Greece have to be among the least mild mannered people on earth. Of course, it's the "hooligan effect", where the 2% paints a bad picture of the whole.

I mostly agree with you, even though I think "2%" is an understatement.

England is a very culturally diverse place, anyone that thinks that there's a great sense of social uniformity hasn't understood it that well.

Re: Italians and Dutch share the same gestural instinct for teaching

#57

Post by crabbone »

HappyPanacea wrote: post #38
crabbone wrote: post #22

It was drilled into me since childhood that speaking with your hands is lacking "class". On a conscious level, I know not to judge people by something as superficial, but on subconscious level, if someone is swinging their hands in the air while talking to me: I don't want to talk to them. It's the same with being loud, or using stop words etc. I haven't been to Italy, but this was a huge deal for me living in Israel…

> but this was a huge deal for me living in Israel. I lived in Israel my whole life and I don't remember ever encountering the notion that 'speaking with your hands is lacking "class"' or that ' It's generally seen as "proper" to not use your hands.'. I just looked and easily found two videos with Israel's Prime Minister where he used hand gestures while talking. > In the military, especially in basic training, that…

Here's about the Israeli PM, and why he's allowed not to wear a tie:

> One day, Netanyahu shows up to the Knesset not wearing a tie. The speaker then reminds him about the decorum, to which Netanyahu replies that the queen of England allowed him not to wear one. The speaker then inquires about the circumstances, to which Netanyahu replies that he didn't wear a tie to Buckingham either, and that the queen told him "perhaps back in Israel, you might not wear a tie, but you must remember to wear one here."

In other words, Netanyahu is, by no means an example of what anyone would consider to be "classy". He's not the worst example, but he certainly fits the stereotype of obnoxious, loud, poorly dressed and otherwise poorly mannered.

> No, I don't think so, why would it?

Absolutely. It's kind of ridiculous to watch a typical Israeli recruit struggle with it. There's a practical reason for it: you have to speak clearly when you are on comms, and nobody can you see swing your hands to explain yourself. But, military being military, this is just a rule that's applied to everyone. Another reason is that you have to stand at attention ("amod be dom matuakh") when you are talking to an officer. Again, this applies to basic training ("tironut") only, since during your regular service you rarely stand at attention in general, let alone when talking to an officer.

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