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Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

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Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#51
post #18

I must be the only person in this website who is happy with the AI Overview feature. It messes up sometimes (very rarely) but so do websites. And between ads, cookie popups, newsletter popups, notification permission popups, websites with a high Time to First Byte, and all the useless filler around the content, websites are a nightmare to browse. I would say that for almost all of my searches the AI Overview feature…

[dead]

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#52
post #39

Google as a search engine peaked in 2005. Since then they've become far more profitable, increased revenue by orders of magnitude, brought search to many more areas, increased headcount massively, improved their share price massively, diversified, serve far more paying customers, become more efficient per query, built data centres, devices and chips with more vertical integration etc. But as a consumer product for si…

you did a lot of wind up for a "slightly worse" when half the first page is either AI or advertisement; they ditch pure keyword matching with "feels like you want this" matching which works for serving more ad to more eyeballs for longer. For bland searches, sure, its 'slightly worse' but for the ability to find verbatim results necessary to drill down into a subject it's absolutely worthless.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#53
post #18

I must be the only person in this website who is happy with the AI Overview feature. It messes up sometimes (very rarely) but so do websites. And between ads, cookie popups, newsletter popups, notification permission popups, websites with a high Time to First Byte, and all the useless filler around the content, websites are a nightmare to browse. I would say that for almost all of my searches the AI Overview feature…

You are not the only one.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#55

Kagi. Just use Kagi. It is by far far far the best. Best money I spend, aside from Fastmail. https://kagi.com/

As someone who also loves Kagi, what do you like so much about Fastmail? Seeing it compared to Kagi makes me want to give it a try as well haha.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#56
post #31
post #17

I usually switch between DuckDuckGo and Startpage. Both are good.

What (What do you search) they stink vs. Google even though Startpage is proxying them. DDG is _not_ a “good” search engine — please, anybody have a hundred side-by-side screenshots to compare identical searches? Edit - also admit Kagi’s great, I’m not affiliated; if you have money Kagi should be the pick (ideally purchased via their more private payment options probably)

DDG is a mediocre search engine. A mediocre search engine is still much better than whatever Google's become.

Honestly, the answer is so often a little toy search like Marginalia or going straight to the website in question now, its frightening.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#57
What about a distributed way of doing search, does that exist?

Different people/bots scrape the net and add it to a distributed database optimized for search.

Each query could cost a crypto micropayment to avoid DDoS. Or maybe a slightly larger payment to download the whole database so you can use it privately or create a competing centralized or decentralized search.

Yes, we hate crypto, but it seems useful here. It's bad if 1 entity can gatekeep both the database and access to it, no matter how non-evil they seem now.

We might even index torrents, use speech-to-text for music, movies, video clips and other things like that. So you'll search for a phrase from a movie and it will be there even though no one mentions it on any website.

A couple of issues I can think of with that decentralized approach:

* copyright - fuck it, it's decentralized, it can index whole books, maybe partnering with Anna's Archive or LibGen. Maybe have a copyright-respecting database and another one that doesn't respect it if you foresee the man coming down on the project. Maybe the results from the DB that doesn't respect copyright is merged at query-time with the one that does. Or maybe, the DB that doesn't respect copyright is just a superset of the copyright-respecting DB. I don't know how easy it would be to simultaneously search more than 1 DB.

* privacy - it could run over Tor or at least allow people to access it via Tor. The privacy of the cryptocurrency also seems doable - we have Monero and other private coins but I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement private micropayments with these.

* spam, intentionally wrong archives/crawls - pay the people who submit sites something so they financial motivation to not lie. Some consensus-based reward mechanism could be used, not sure which one

* moderation, illegal content - we don't care about copyright but likely don't want real CSAM, real animal abuse and other obviously awful content. Rewards should also be able to be used somehow for moderators or for people flagging content. We might even have a decentralized way to flag/tag content for anything at all - "AI generated" or "human generated", "small web", "uses Cloudflare", etc..

* how the distributed database actually works, how searching it works, who connects to whom when making a query and so on. I hope there are smart people with knowledge on such systems (not me lol) who can shed some light on whether it's possible and how.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#58
post #31
post #17

I usually switch between DuckDuckGo and Startpage. Both are good.

What (What do you search) they stink vs. Google even though Startpage is proxying them. DDG is _not_ a “good” search engine — please, anybody have a hundred side-by-side screenshots to compare identical searches? Edit - also admit Kagi’s great, I’m not affiliated; if you have money Kagi should be the pick (ideally purchased via their more private payment options probably)

DDG works well enough for me. I wonder if people who pay for Kagi perceive it as being better to justify the money spent.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#59
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What (What do you search) they stink vs. Google even though Startpage is proxying them. DDG is _not_ a “good” search engine — please, anybody have a hundred side-by-side screenshots to compare identical searches? Edit - also admit Kagi’s great, I’m not affiliated; if you have money Kagi should be the pick (ideally purchased via their more private payment options probably)

What are your metrics for good? I’ve exclusively used ddg for years and have zero issues. You ask for an outrageous level of proof- you prove it’s not good.

Whattttttt this is a few bucks of request from some open source model, just been lazy

Edit: have to do the work, get the screenshots, & analyze my own patterns. How often do I just need the first link from any search engine (like searching $majorBrand to look for their homepage), how often do I search something esoteric where DDG falters, how often do I search something essentially unique but simply not indexed by Bing (DDG) even though it was submitted to Google just fine, etc.

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