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Don't Roll Your Own

susam.net

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Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#51

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #29
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

Also: Javascript should not be able to touch the browser history. I know it's useful for some apps. But it's too prone to abuse and that API should be revoked.

my main argument against this has been reading books

I don't enjoy needing to "go back" 100 times, once for each page of the book just to return to f.e. search results I opened the book from

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#52

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

andai wrote: post #39
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

I found that most internet pages are greatly enhanced by disabling JavaScript in my web browser.

total disabling of JS is overkill

I mean, I'm all for for switching to Lua or smth (which is a slightly different anti-JS camp than yours), but the problem isn't in interactive (or even non-frozen) pages in general - it's in pages reading user actions that user doesn't expect/want to

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#53

Post by cousin_it »

amarant wrote: post #5
chihuahua wrote: post #4

Totally agree. What do engineers or designers think they're trying to accomplish when they mess with the scroll bar? Or the password field? "We are so sophisticated, the built in behavior is simply not good enough for us!" Congratulations, now your website is a shitty experience for your users. Well done.

In my experience, it's never the engineers nor the designers who makes those decisions. Stuff like that always comes from higher up the ladder, some middle management figure who thinks he is smarter than he is, mandates such abominations and refuses to hear reason from the engineers and the designers. The engineers and designers then proceed to do as they're told because they like that nice fat paycheck at the end of…

Portfolio websites of designers, where nobody's the higher authority but themselves, are full of scrolljacking and other fuckery.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#54

Post by king_geedorah »

msla wrote: post #36
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

> WHY javascript code is even allowed to see all these actions of the user? Because the alternative is UI/UX Designers and Visionary Managers insisting on keeping Flash and Java Applets and Microsoft Visual Silverlight .Net++ around forever, because you can't do some things in the browser and We Need To Do Them. Some things have minimal complexity that either lives in the language itself or in libraries. The Web has…

Nobody “needed” the web to do these things. We decided that the effort and cost of making native applications was too great. I’d argue we went the wrong way given that even the same browser will exhibit slightly different behavior depending upon the underlying platform upon which it runs.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#55

Post by GolfPopper »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

>WHY javascript code is even allowed to see all these actions of the user? We already loaded the page and rendered it - we users must already be free to do with the content as we please

Because on the modern web, the user is the content, sold to the highest bidder.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#56

Post by manoDev »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

Javascript was a mistake.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#57

Post by crq-yml »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

The Web is an ads platform with useful functionality as bait.

That's all there really is to it: Mosaic added image support. Investors got excited and asked if the images could animate, if they could record click data and credit card data, if they could add video and additional presentational elements. Holistic user experiences were secondary.

To move forward we have to accept that most of this wasn't an accident and it needs some breaking changes.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#58

Post by latexr »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #47
js2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these annoyances and more can be blocked by StopTheMadness (available for iOS and macOS): https://underpassapp.com/StopTheMadness/

> Sold separately aaaand you lost my interest the moment money got involved all these things are already fixable by browser extensions - what is lacking is exposing that in browser options and even making it the default

> all these things are already fixable by browser extensions

Which is what StopTheMadness is and does.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#59

Post by jakevoytko »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #20

> Don't roll your own page scrolling. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own link navigation. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own text selection. browser should not even let the page see this action > Don't roll your own copy and paste. browser should not even let the page see this action I'm serious. WHY javascript code is even allowed to see…

Applications like Google Docs would be impossible without each of the four things you listed being available. We had Google Docs that didn’t roll-your-own for each of the items in that list and it was called Writely and it was absolute dogshit (but super cool for its time) because those limitations were too extreme. And by extension it wouldn’t make sense to have Chromebooks as a category of hardware, because web software could never compete at a feature parity level with native software.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#60

Post by TacticalCoder »

lysace wrote: post #7

> Don't roll your own page scrolling, link navigation, text selection, context menu, copy and paste, password field, or date picker. Javascript in the browser was a mistake. And if we had to have it, the suitable scope of it was what we had around 2004. Google invested tens of billions in it realizing they had a way of owning the browser space simply by making it insanely complex. Just hire all of the web standards p…

> Javascript in the browser was a mistake.

There are too many words in that sentence. Here are the words that can be removed: "browser", "in" and "the".

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