Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

pcguide.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 91 posts

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#51

Post by john_strinlai »

nekzn wrote: post #50
mschuster91 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Riot Games just today (!) admitted to hard-bricking cheating hardware [1]. This kind of stuff definitely is malware, and your comment aged like milk. [1] https://videocardz.com/newz/riot-games-on-valorant-dma-cheat...

You are confusing drm with anti cheats. In any case, good for Riot, and good especially for their players!

anti-cheat is not perfect. they will brick a legitimate user's pc. that is the opposite of "good for their players".

and even if someone is cheating on a riot game, bricking their pc is obviously fucked, and will end up biting riot in the ass (i.e. not good for riot, either).

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#52

Post by giancarlostoro »

freedomben wrote: post #42
giancarlostoro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend installing Linux. If it wont play on Linux even with Proton, you shouldn't give them a single penny.

I agree, although I've made exceptions for a very small number of games with Denuvo (actually, just Hogwarts Legacy, which in hindsight I'm glad I did even though it still hurts my soul a bit) and they can run on Linux (I have nothing else but Linux). It's mostly kernel-level anti-cheat that won't run from what I've read.

If it plays on Linux I don't personally care if its got Denuvo, its isolated by Proton, so not really a big deal. I do think its really pointless, because none of these tools ever truly stop game cheating.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#53

Post by allthetime »

galad87 wrote: post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

They often are on macOS now. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/accessing...

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#54

Post by blueg3 »

Aerroon wrote: post #37
galad87 wrote: post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

They are? Games need pretty much all the performance they can possibly get. Can you sandbox them without having a performance impact? Consider that people pay a $300 premium to get ~10% better performance (buying an RTX 5080 instead of a 5070 Ti). Personally I know that sometimes closing the web browser in the background makes my game run better - that web browser doesn't even interact with the game! Would a sandbox…

It certainly could.

Buying a better GPU improves your graphics performance and that's basically unrelated to the area where a sandbox impacts performance.

Killing your web browser is probably just lowering memory pressure?

Sandboxes add overhead to syscalls. It's kind of similar to running under Wine, which also adds significant syscalls overhead. Wine also has a much more impactful DirectX translation layer, so your sandbox performance would be probably be much better than the Wine performance.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#55

Post by Rohansi »

john_strinlai wrote: post #51
nekzn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing drm with anti cheats. In any case, good for Riot, and good especially for their players!

anti-cheat is not perfect. they will brick a legitimate user's pc. that is the opposite of "good for their players". and even if someone is cheating on a riot game, bricking their pc is obviously fucked, and will end up biting riot in the ass (i.e. not good for riot, either).

Which anti-cheat has bricked users' PCs? The Riot example above specifically targets DMA cards (cheating hardware) which no legitimate user will have.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#56

Post by devmor »

blueg3 wrote: post #54
Aerroon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are? Games need pretty much all the performance they can possibly get. Can you sandbox them without having a performance impact? Consider that people pay a $300 premium to get ~10% better performance (buying an RTX 5080 instead of a 5070 Ti). Personally I know that sometimes closing the web browser in the background makes my game run better - that web browser doesn't even interact with the game! Would a sandbox…

It certainly could. Buying a better GPU improves your graphics performance and that's basically unrelated to the area where a sandbox impacts performance. Killing your web browser is probably just lowering memory pressure? Sandboxes add overhead to syscalls. It's kind of similar to running under Wine, which also adds significant syscalls overhead. Wine also has a much more impactful DirectX translation layer, so your…

> your sandbox performance would be probably be much better than the Wine performance.

That’s hard to believe, given that many games run better under WINE than native Windows.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#57

Post by freedomben »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #52
freedomben wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, although I've made exceptions for a very small number of games with Denuvo (actually, just Hogwarts Legacy, which in hindsight I'm glad I did even though it still hurts my soul a bit) and they can run on Linux (I have nothing else but Linux). It's mostly kernel-level anti-cheat that won't run from what I've read.

If it plays on Linux I don't personally care if its got Denuvo, its isolated by Proton, so not really a big deal. I do think its really pointless, because none of these tools ever truly stop game cheating.

Oh yeah completely agree. They don't even stop warez either as it only takes a little while for it to be broken. Mainly all it does is punish paying users, and cost them sales (from people like me) who don't want the potential headache.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#58

Post by zufallsheld »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #38
parasense wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proton is just emulation, and it will happily expose the underlying host system to the running game software. In particular the filesystem and some peripheral devices. However, Valve is moving towards sandboxing in Steam. You can already run the whole thing with a flatpak sandbox, and valve themselves are using ostree. With srvio is possible to run the whole thing in a throwaway windows vm while the graphics card is…

This is why it was foolish to give a new name to it. It was originally called Wine Is Not an Emulator.

It's not a new name. Proton is Valve's fork of wine. They also contribute patches to wine.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#59

Post by chainingsolid »

Aerroon wrote: post #37
galad87 wrote: post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

They are? Games need pretty much all the performance they can possibly get. Can you sandbox them without having a performance impact? Consider that people pay a $300 premium to get ~10% better performance (buying an RTX 5080 instead of a 5070 Ti). Personally I know that sometimes closing the web browser in the background makes my game run better - that web browser doesn't even interact with the game! Would a sandbox…

Most of the sandboxing you need for a game is less full sandbox and more a whitelist on file access and local network communication.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#60

Post by nosioptar »

nekzn wrote: post #43
4chandaily wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We have to stop the nazis" is so 1940s. "Congress is engaged in a witch hunt" is so 1950s. "Civil rights should be applied to everyone" is so 1960s. "Fossil Fuels are destroying the plant" is so 1970s. "Unregulated free trade is dangerous" is so 1980s. "The police are out of control and unduly target minorities" is so 1990s. Something being old doesn't make it less relevant or important. It means we need to say it l…

[flagged]

Dude, nothing they said had anything to do with left handedness...
Post reply on HN