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News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

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Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#51

Post by overfeed »

poisonfountain wrote: post #28
svachalek wrote: post #4

There really should be a micropayments setup on the internet that's not advertising based. Let these models pay a nickel to read the article, covered by the multi trillion dollar AI blank check.

Cloudflare is trying to push for that, but every time it's mentioned people complain (because they hate Cloudflare for making them wait 2s for a captcha) and nobody proposes an alternative solution. I don't think this is going to happen, unfortunately, and the internet will get silo-ed into oblivion.

People don't hate micropayments because it's Cloudflare promoting them, it's because it truly is a shit idea, for many reasons.

People would equally reject Netflix, if Netflix fooated the idea of replacing the subscription model with pay-per-view micropayments.

> ...nobody proposes an alternative solution

Such is the human condition - some problems simply have no satisfactory solutions.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#52

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

overfeed wrote: post #51
poisonfountain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare is trying to push for that, but every time it's mentioned people complain (because they hate Cloudflare for making them wait 2s for a captcha) and nobody proposes an alternative solution. I don't think this is going to happen, unfortunately, and the internet will get silo-ed into oblivion.

People don't hate micropayments because it's Cloudflare promoting them, it's because it truly is a shit idea, for many reasons. People would equally reject Netflix, if Netflix fooated the idea of replacing the subscription model with pay-per-view micropayments. > ...nobody proposes an alternative solution Such is the human condition - some problems simply have no satisfactory solutions.

I would gladly pay $4 to not have to watch twenty-seven ads before the main fight in an MMA match

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#53

Post by GCA10 »

evanjrowley wrote: post #29

They should allow access after the news becomes old. That's what the archive is intended for.

JSTOR does exactly this with scholarly journals, and it works out pretty well. Recent issues are accessible only to paying customers.

Back issues (usually at least a few years old) are available via JSTOR for free in small amounts and through subscriptions for bulk users. I'm sure there's some reason to fight about the details, but from a distance it looks like a pretty good compromise.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#55

Post by overfeed »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #52
overfeed wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't hate micropayments because it's Cloudflare promoting them, it's because it truly is a shit idea, for many reasons. People would equally reject Netflix, if Netflix fooated the idea of replacing the subscription model with pay-per-view micropayments. > ...nobody proposes an alternative solution Such is the human condition - some problems simply have no satisfactory solutions.

I would gladly pay $4 to not have to watch twenty-seven ads before the main fight in an MMA match

If perfect information and perfect competition were attainable, the free hand of the market would deliver such a service to you. Since it's not, you'll have to bear the dudewipes ads.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#56

Post by storus »

Not trying to be paranoid, but losing recorded history raw as it was originally reported could lead to quick AI-assisted rewrites in the archives of news outlets to fit whatever narrative of the "jour" is in fashion/that powerful of those times want. We are already seeing it in new editions of some old books that suddenly miss some currently controversial topics. History is written by the victors could change to history is rewritten by the (current) victors, as they see fit.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#58

Post by ghaff »

wormius wrote: post #17

Ugh - our local paper used to have a wonderful archive, that got limited and locked down after the pandemic. IDK if they got bought out, but it's a real shame, I think some of the problem is things that used to be public information (birthdates, families, names) in hospital admissions (I found old entries of my friends parents and my own for being "in the hospital" in the newspaper for example). I'm sure that plays a…

A lot of those aggregated records very quickly become a very precise public record. I'm not saying if it's good or bad but a lot of people on this site probably object to having their lives be essentially an open book which is very close to being the case as soon as a relatively small number of facts are opened up.

It's more the case when the addresses and birthdates of public figures, which are often a matter of public record, enter the picture but it's easier to find out information about a lot of people with a bit of data than most people realize if anyone really cares to investigate.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#59

Post by AnthonyMouse »

remus wrote: post #15

That's a real shame. I am involved with some history-related projects and the number of websites which go offline is huge, and the wayback machine is incredibly helpful for unearthing these dead sites. It is not hard to imagine a future in 50 years time where a huge percentage of this content is lost forever, or at best incredibly hard to find.

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages, to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and in the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#60

Post by dylan604 »

The oldest news station in my city has partnered with a local college to house their archives going all the way back to when their content was gathered on black&white film. IIRC, using the footage is free (with proper attribution), but you have to pay for the media you choose to receive. The last time I looked, this was pre-digital play out systems, so we're talking video tape costs plus a fee to cover equipment/VTR type use. Not sure what they do now if you just want a digital file.

I'm pretty sure similar was done for the newspaper. However, the oldest paper was bought and killed decades ago, so not sure what happened there.

While not as convenient as a live website, most news sources will have an actual physical archive that you can access with some real intent.

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