What I didn't get from the video is that there's a differential, but it is not connected to the wheels. Is there a second differential that connects MG1 to the wheels?
Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
51–60 of 230 posts
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#52The title doesn't match the point of the video. What he is trying to show is the world would be a better place if we could establish that hybrids come in two flavors: Toyota and non-Toyota. There's really no better hybrid design. Unfortunately that means they aren't scrapped after decades, and Mongolia has become a dumping ground for them.[1] So it still is the best hybrid drivetrain in the world, but much like plast…
I'm still not sure about the shoehorning of Mongolia into the discussion, but what these sorts of comments often fail to discuss is what the supply chain into new things looks like, because that can be equally destructive to the environment. Generally, recyclers will pay for scrap that has minerals which can be recovered from the scrap. Toyota Siennas use liquid Ni-MH batteries. It is likely these batteries as scrap…
You're right about the Sienna. I was thinking about the Pacifica hybrid lithium battery. I think the greatest concern here is the fact that lithium batteries are the future and the NiMH systems turn into legacy trash once they lose balance in the 2030s and everything is lithium or solid state. Nobody will be interested in reviving the packs when lithium batteries are cheaper, better, and prolific.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#53So this is specifically about Toyota's hybrid engines (which is very different from e.g. Honda's engine, not to mention plug-in hybrids or "mild hybrids"). The explanation of the mechanics starts around the 36 minute mark. I always found most explanations of Toyota's Power Split Device too abstract, until I found this page where you can play with the sliders to see how the power is actually split between the ICE and…
Note that Ford's plugin hybrids (using the same 2.5L engine as the full hybrids) also use the same technology (due to them having a cooperation and patent sharing agreement with Toyota) though they do differ a tiny bit due to the engine.
The tool is interesting though the Ford system can run independently on MG2/MG1 alone up to about 130kph (~80mph) depending on requested torque and load.
Only thing Ford screwed up is the battery (or Samsung since this time it's the cells).
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#54I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs. Time code…
There's a lot of memes about how dumb it is to have all of the ICE moving parts, but they're just memes. We know how to make engines and they are cheap to mass produce. The complexity argument is aesthetic.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#55The EVs I'd really like to see some day in the US are the dirt cheap 100 mile range $5k Chinese EVs.
One can dream I guess.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#56I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…
They made sense when batteries were so expensive that decent range was unaffordable. That era is coming to a close, though.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#57One of my absolute favorite thing about my Prius is how solid-state everything is. It really feels like the Toyota engineers went out of their way to throw the people working on their cars a bone.
The hybrid battery is super-easy to reach, and since Toyota stuck with NiMH for so long, it's extremely reliable across temperatures, and the cells are dirt cheap.
I have to help family members with car repairs every so often, and the Prius not having a power steering pump, an alternator, a starter motor, or even a normal transmission, means that it's actually feasible to stay on top of repairs as a non-mechanic.
In my brother's Ford fusion, it's a totally different experience, where it feels like Ford cut every single corner they could. I understand that their sedan line was dying, and I could really see why.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#58For anyone who is concerned that this only applies to Toyota drivetrains (which was true for quite some time), Toyota made nearly all of their HEV patents (24,000 of them) completely royalty-free in 2019 [0]. At this point, I assume the only thing stopping manufacturers is their pre-existing investment in other technology. [0] https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/27512455.html
Ford Kuga (EU) / Escape (US) is built from those patents. It’s basically a copy of Toyota’s hybrid system. And it’s actually quite great, until it catches on fire.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
On a completely tangential note, has anyone ever tried a hybrid that was like a diesel-electric train? The engine just charges the battery. IIRC it can be much simpler, no need for gearing at all, the engine just runs at a constant speed and the battery handles delivering variable amounts of power.
Called a series hybrid, and it has been done. However gears are more efficient than a generator -> motor, and charging a battery adds even more losses. Thus if the engine is running anyway you are better off just mechanically connecting it to the wheels. Trains don't do the above in large parts because the gears needed either wouldn't fit in the allowed space. (we may not be able to make them large enough either - th…
I wonder if fuel efficiency just doesn't matter enough for trains, since they're already so efficient at turning motive energy into motion. Other costs may dominate.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#60I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs. Time code…
>> It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even.
Having worked in the field I've been of that opinion for 15 years or more. Two motors and a planetary gear are simpler than a regular transmission. More efficient also, and more reliable. The inverter and small battery may add some cost, but the MPG improvement is more than worth it.
Hybrids are an awesome improvement over plain old ICE, but they tend to get an unnecessary price premium due to their advantages.