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WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

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Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#51

Post by mrpippy »

com2kid wrote: post #32
vintagedave wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested in reading that.

Tl;dr wince team forked visual studio 6 (I think it was 6, I don't recall it was long ago) to make a custom UI and a tool called platform builder. This was needed because VS didn't have the extensibility needed to do this without source access. The fork got more and more out of date and it is hard to justify spending resources on an internal tool like that. WinCE was incredible but what was shipped to customers was a…

WinCE 6 Platform Builder was based on Visual Studio 2005 I think.

Building applications for WinCE 6 was also only supported with Visual Studio 2005 or 2008, which put a hard cap on available language features and development OS support. I had the thankless job of trying to port C++ code from Linux to WinCE 6 in 2014, and even then VS2008 felt way behind.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#52

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

com2kid wrote: post #15
my123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows CE late in its lifetime (CE 6.0) had that go away with per-process address spaces.

CE 6 doesn't get enough love. It was an amazing OS that had a tiny runtime and a tiny on device foot print (it could get under 16MB iirc). Too bad the tooling around it was so bad. I should do a writeup of why, it is an interesting case study in how poor extendability of tooling can hurt an entire company.

Part of the reason CE 6 didn't get much love is that everyone had been burned so many times by all the previous CE releases -- not to mention that CE 6 was far too late!

In the end, though, it was better than Mobile, but hindsight is 20/20.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#53

Post by andix »

kube-system wrote: post #35
BuildTheRobots wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinCE had a load of weird issues (and looked consistently awful), but moving onto PDAs and even phones running it from a world of Psion and Palm was like stepping forward a century. This might be rose tinted recollections - and helps that it coincided with with the consumerisation of WiFi and Bluetooth - but fond memories. I still can't believe how Microsoft had a surprisingly capable mobile OS years before Android o…

All tech enthusiasts at the time remember how amazing WinCE looked on the shelf. The thing that held it back was that it was just a cool technology, but wasn't an actual solution for any problem regular people had. Regular people didn't need to carry around a pocket calendar or phone book. And most of the people who did -- carried paper ones that were easier to use didn't need charging. Smartphones didn't get any tra…

The main problem was, that barely any useful apps existed. In the early 2000s internet connectivity was working well on those devices at some point (Wifi, via bluetooth phone, or integrated). But there was nothing to do with it, except syncing Outlook and some very limited mobile websites.

The only thing those Windows Mobile 2003 era devices were good for: Playing Age of Empires. There was a full featured port of Age of Empires I, and it was really awesome! It worked really well with the pen input.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#55

Post by ThrowawayB7 »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #52
com2kid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CE 6 doesn't get enough love. It was an amazing OS that had a tiny runtime and a tiny on device foot print (it could get under 16MB iirc). Too bad the tooling around it was so bad. I should do a writeup of why, it is an interesting case study in how poor extendability of tooling can hurt an entire company.

Part of the reason CE 6 didn't get much love is that everyone had been burned so many times by all the previous CE releases -- not to mention that CE 6 was far too late! In the end, though, it was better than Mobile, but hindsight is 20/20.

Parent poster is probably conflating Windows CE, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone.

Windows Mobile 5 was tremendously popular with over 100 phones from various manufacturers. But that was also around the time iPhone was released and by the time Windows Mobile 6 rolled out, the iPhone 3G/3GS was taking the world by storm. Windows Mobile 6.5 had a partially revamped UI but not enough to be competitive. From there we go to Windows Phone 7, 8, and 10 and that story is well known.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#56

Post by satertek »

andix wrote: post #54

Does it run Age of Empires Pocket PC edition? This was the only useful thing on those CE consumer devices. All the other stuff was mostly useless. :D

I loaded that on my T-Mobile Wing phone back in the day. Super impressive port. Would love to know the story behind it!

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#57

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #55
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason CE 6 didn't get much love is that everyone had been burned so many times by all the previous CE releases -- not to mention that CE 6 was far too late! In the end, though, it was better than Mobile, but hindsight is 20/20.

Parent poster is probably conflating Windows CE, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone. Windows Mobile 5 was tremendously popular with over 100 phones from various manufacturers. But that was also around the time iPhone was released and by the time Windows Mobile 6 rolled out, the iPhone 3G/3GS was taking the world by storm. Windows Mobile 6.5 had a partially revamped UI but not enough to be competitive. From there we go…

Me? Conflating? I think not.

We all dumped Windows CE for Windows Mobile. It was a lot of work and in the end it was an inferior product for pretty much every use case imaginable. The certification was not difficult but costly. Porting practically every application was a huge waste of time and money when they already worked well enough on WinCE.

Windows Mobile, built on WinCE, effectively cannibalized itself. We had Microsoft PMs and engineers tell us WinCE was a dead end. I moved onto to greener pastures before WinCE 6 but my understanding is that it triggered a crisis of faith within at least a few engineering organizations.

There were a number of things Windows Mobile excelled at compared to its predecessor but in particular it excelled at wasting corporate resources.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#58

Post by com2kid »

ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #55
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason CE 6 didn't get much love is that everyone had been burned so many times by all the previous CE releases -- not to mention that CE 6 was far too late! In the end, though, it was better than Mobile, but hindsight is 20/20.

Parent poster is probably conflating Windows CE, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone. Windows Mobile 5 was tremendously popular with over 100 phones from various manufacturers. But that was also around the time iPhone was released and by the time Windows Mobile 6 rolled out, the iPhone 3G/3GS was taking the world by storm. Windows Mobile 6.5 had a partially revamped UI but not enough to be competitive. From there we go…

I worked on WM6, 6.5 and WP7.

WP would've had a better chance if the windows org hadn't murdered CE to move everything over to the Windows Kernel.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#59

Post by ngcazz »

Unlike most other projects of this kind that show up, I'm not sure how to feel about this. What did the author learn about the N64? What quirks did they fight? What do you get out ot just pointing the AI at a problem until it optimizes the solution to an acceptable point? I'd wager not a lot.

Re: WinCE64 – Windows CE 2.11 for N64

#60

Post by garaetjjte »

com2kid wrote: post #32
vintagedave wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested in reading that.

Tl;dr wince team forked visual studio 6 (I think it was 6, I don't recall it was long ago) to make a custom UI and a tool called platform builder. This was needed because VS didn't have the extensibility needed to do this without source access. The fork got more and more out of date and it is hard to justify spending resources on an internal tool like that. WinCE was incredible but what was shipped to customers was a…

Huh? CE7 platform builder is just extension to stock VS2008. And it doesn't really do much, just few treeviews for selecting components. The real issue is the build system, which is some hideous combination of bat files and nmake.

Kernel is the only part that seems written with any sort of care, everything else is barely holding together with duct tape.

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