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New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

reuters.com

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Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#51

Post by cindyllm »

travelalberta wrote: post #45
jbecke wrote: post #12

Option 1: Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars, and maybe abuses the corporate entity a bit, as a piggy bank, or whatever. Option 2: the market has control, and optimizes for short term starlink revenue and the launch business. I prefer Option 1.

People raised on a diet of social democracy propaganda will kick and scream when you tell them people aren't equal and that decisions should be limited to exceptional individuals and not the mob. If you don't like the SpaceX structure don't invest. It's that easy. I'd rather give Elon the reins and see what happens. He managed to make electric cars viable and starlink is an incredible technical achievement. There's s…

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Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#53

Post by righthand »

kjksf wrote: post #48
khriss wrote: post #21

> Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars This trope needs to die. SpaceX has no plans to go to Mars. Elon meanwhile regularly says forward looking stuff to attempt to justify the lofty valuations of his companies. Let's just say there is a ... mixed track record on these proclamations (Full self driving, Hyperloop anyone?)

Musk just tied his compensation to having 1 million people on Mars. https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat... Do explain to me his evil plan of becoming rich by lying about going to Mars and yet agreeing to only get paid when he does go to Mars.

Does Elon need the money though or does Elon need the valuation? Do you think he actually needs that paycheck to actually happen?

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#54

Post by randallsquared »

khriss wrote: post #21

> Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars This trope needs to die. SpaceX has no plans to go to Mars. Elon meanwhile regularly says forward looking stuff to attempt to justify the lofty valuations of his companies. Let's just say there is a ... mixed track record on these proclamations (Full self driving, Hyperloop anyone?)

Elon put out a musing akin to a blog post on Hyperloop.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#55

Post by t43562 »

travelalberta wrote: post #45
jbecke wrote: post #12

Option 1: Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars, and maybe abuses the corporate entity a bit, as a piggy bank, or whatever. Option 2: the market has control, and optimizes for short term starlink revenue and the launch business. I prefer Option 1.

People raised on a diet of social democracy propaganda will kick and scream when you tell them people aren't equal and that decisions should be limited to exceptional individuals and not the mob. If you don't like the SpaceX structure don't invest. It's that easy. I'd rather give Elon the reins and see what happens. He managed to make electric cars viable and starlink is an incredible technical achievement. There's s…

It's just undesirable to let people get too powerful if you believe in democracy. Fall of the Roman Empire etc.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#56

Post by phkahler »

jnovek wrote: post #29
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 3: Elon takes over the Federal government, causes some major security incidents, and cuts off USAID stranding a number of Federal employees and cutting off short term food support for hundreds of thousands of people depending on it. Option 4: Elon takes over a social network and tries to Orbanize the West with it.

It’s not just cutting food support. Hundreds of thousands of people have died because we cut USAID. https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts

>> In addition, we are unable to directly update our analysis using the previous approach given the complexity of using USASpending.gov and SF133 report data from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to update from foreignassistance.gov because ID codes do not match up.

They can't really tie the cuts to actually useful programs. That was a big reason for the cuts.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#57

Post by AndrewKemendo »

jaccola wrote: post #42
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to hear one of you staunch capitalists tell me why the description of this persons control over 13,000+ employees is any different than a feudal “Lord” Over the entire lifetime of SpaceX Nearly 100% of the revenue comes from the government They pay gifts and tributes to the government They spend an absurd amount of money on lobbying and writing laws to take monopoly control of the subsection of the market Wh…

The vast majority of those 13k workers are highly skilled and in very high demand. They could work elsewhere or start their own company. In addition, they are far better educated and have more welfare options than anyone living under a feudal system.

Oh yes the classic “but the standard of living has gone up and now people have televisions” argument

They are living under a feudal system

Any one of the 13,000 could be fired on whim of Musk and even if it was in error they would have months if ever to get restitution. The employees describe him as a “tyrant” that fires people based on ego

The fact that people aren’t dying of scurvy is all you’re pointing to?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-survey-elon-m...

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#58

Post by kjksf »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #36
iamronaldo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why lie about something that's easily proven false with a Google search? Over last 5 years government revenue is under 25% and if you go off of last 2 years its closer to like 10-15% (and declining!) Starlink is the vast majority of spacex revenue

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SpaceX had to literally sue the military to even be allowed to bid for projects. And won. And then won the contracts.

The guy who landed on the Moon testified in congress opposing giving SpaceX any money.

The government wanted nothing to do with SpaceX.

SpaceX won the contracts despite the government, not because. They won the contracts because they offered the best product at the lowest price.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#60

Post by righthand »

jbecke wrote: post #37
fny wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is already publically traded. It's valuation depends on investors buying into Musks vision. As a rule, investors optimize for long term growth since that's what maximizes valuations. All the megacap companies are judged by future growth. The effect is companies tend to exaggerate and lie about what they can achieve in the long term to juice their own stock. Elon's def got the juice.

Investors should optimize for long term growth, yes. The problem is Management (CEO, etc.) will get fired if things look bad. So the incentive for management, if they can get fired, is to ensure monotonic increase. Sometimes — especially for a rocket company! — you should be allowed to fail for a few years. You should be allowed to take big swings, without risk of getting fired. If Elon knows he is in control, he can…

Lol net worse for society. You types can’t stop the blatant propaganda and bullshit price pumping statements can you?
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