Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 185 posts

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#51

Post by mrhottakes »

aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

You are confusing the macro view with the personal. Try losing your job and being told "don't worry, your quality of life will improve over time!" Would you respond positively?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#52

Post by tenacious_tuna »

mrhottakes wrote: post #36
cjs_ac wrote: post #22

> Already, as many as a quarter of Americans seem accepting of violence as a tool for achieving political change. I'm surprised it's only a quarter: violence as a tool for achieving political change is the entire point of the right to bear arms. EDIT: I'm not arguing for or against political violence, just noting an apparent inconsistency between Americans' views and one of the documents that they talk about as thoug…

It's 100% accurate to say that the history of the United States is filled to the brim with political change via violence.

Some friends and I read "A People's History of the United States" a while back and were surprised at how true this is. US classroom history textbooks hold civil disobedience up as the One True Way to bring change, but it's alarming how often the backdrop of famous acts of civil disobedience was in fact incredible violence.

Our conclusion in our impromptu book club was that made sense: why would the state schools give students lots of examples of how violence against the state was an effective negotiating tool? It was extremely jarring to reconcile with the image of US history we'd been imbued with up to that point, which of course was also a reflection of our socioeconomic status at the time.

As a counterpoint, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" is also taught in schools, so it's possible I'm just selectively remembering things.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#53

Post by simianwords »

1. If AI is like other technologies, there will be job displacement and temporary upheaval after which new jobs will be created and prosperity increases - this is by far the only good way to increase prosperity

2. If AI is so good that it is a proper superset of humans and can do all jobs humans can do, this is a huge deal and we don’t even have the vocabulary to express what would happen

I don’t foresee a third option.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#54

Post by nervousvarun »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #24
thomascgalvin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking a question that only applies to rational actors. Corporations exist for one purpose: to get as much money as possible. Side concerns, which can range from "not destroying the environment" or "not destroying the economy," are objectively not their goal, nor do they consider them their responsibility. Those are things "someone else" should worry about. AI destroying all jobs is similar to a nuclear arms r…

That is mostly true but a bit of a simplification. They exist to do what the people who have power want them to do which is not always strictly profit maximization. A ceo may realize rto will decrease profits but do it anyway because it increases the power delta between him and the workers.

"not always strictly profit maximization."

Maybe in the short-term but public companies with shareholders won't allow this in any sort of long-term way right?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#55

Post by ofjcihen »

cjs_ac wrote: post #22

> Already, as many as a quarter of Americans seem accepting of violence as a tool for achieving political change. I'm surprised it's only a quarter: violence as a tool for achieving political change is the entire point of the right to bear arms. EDIT: I'm not arguing for or against political violence, just noting an apparent inconsistency between Americans' views and one of the documents that they talk about as thoug…

I don’t condone it but I’m also expecting it to escalate. I grew up extremely poor and remained so until I dug myself out (through an absolutely ridiculous amount of work that no one should have to do this is not pro bootstraps).

Every week was a struggle to eat and the cost of living has significantly increased since then.

I guess the question is what is the terminal percentage of people who can’t afford to exist?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#56

Post by kennywinker »

aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Machine-Origins-Rebellion-Again... Has some pertinent examples.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#57

Post by [deleted] »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

[deleted]

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#58

Post by bachmeier »

garciasn wrote: post #31
tux3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true AI doomsayers believe in some sort of technological singularity, which means a point after which things become so strange that the world is radically transformed. Things like "jobs" and "careers" are so integral to society that we can't really imagine what society would be like in a world where people don't have any clear purpose. That's why you won't get a definitive answer. The whole idea of a singularity…

I’m always amazed that when I tell people I intend to retire in my 50s, they tell me that I can’t possibly mean that and actively wonder how I could possibly fill my time. It’s as if we could not possibly function as humans without meaningless shifting of tangible/intangibles from one place to another. Society is so hellbent on the idea that we need our job to be our identity, they lack the imagination for another ot…

It is indeed ridiculous. People saying they're going to let someone else tell them what to do with their time, energy, and calendar, even if they hate doing it. The only explanation I have is that they have been letting the wrong people program them.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#59

Post by randycupertino »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

Given how resistant American voters and politicians are against any sort of welfare or social assistance I doubt UBI would ever be possible here. Remember the backlash against "ObamaPhones" and "welfare queens!" We can't even get mandatory paid parental leave approved; UBI would be a non-starter.

Americans are fine with low taxes for billionaires and don't mind high inequality as one of their core beliefs is that upward class mobility is achievable and they might also get rich.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#60

Post by bluecheese452 »

nervousvarun wrote: post #54
bluecheese452 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is mostly true but a bit of a simplification. They exist to do what the people who have power want them to do which is not always strictly profit maximization. A ceo may realize rto will decrease profits but do it anyway because it increases the power delta between him and the workers.

"not always strictly profit maximization." Maybe in the short-term but public companies with shareholders won't allow this in any sort of long-term way right?

Not allow it? They insist upon it!

The controlling votes are all part of the same social class. They would gladly give up a small amount of profit to keep the distance between them and the workers as large as possible.

Post reply on HN