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Do teachers need advanced degrees?

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Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#51

Post by Jedd »

syntaxing wrote: post #46

Hot take, I truly believe the answer for HS is yes. I grew up in a school district where the teachers had to have a master degree in the subject they were teaching. Those teachers strongly shaped me who I am today and I believe their advanced degree helped them become great teachers.

> I truly believe

I read through TFA and was impressed at the number of citations they offered. I had assumed (but not strongly) that there'd be a correlation, so this was enlightening.

Do you have any citations apart from your own experience?

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#52

Post by jimt1234 »

Sorta related: I've often wondered why teachers have to pay for their own training, yet police and fire fighters have their training paid for by tax payers. They both provide a valuable public service. IMHO, teachers should be hired, then trained - paid for by the state, just like police and fire fighters usually are.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#53

Post by CivBase »

flopsamjetsam wrote: post #34
CivBase wrote: post #25

No job "needs advanced degrees". They need experience. If you want to get your foot in the door in a competitive market, degrees help. They offer some substitute for experience. But it's ridiculous to require them.

Do you mean for a teaching job, or just any job? Certainly in fields like biology, you can only be taken seriously by others in the field by having an advanced degree (which is really only the beginning). In computing, in the commercial field, you can of course get by with no degree.

I mean any job. I trust a senior biologist with no degree over a fresh college biology grad with no experience any day.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#54

Post by blululu »

m463 wrote: post #28
class3shock wrote: post #19

It's funny that this is a question when every college STEM class is taught by people who have degrees that have absolutely nothing to do with being able to teach effectively.

I think a lot of teaching jobs are like that. If you were good at teaching STEM, I think you could probably work nearby in a STEM job for more money.

Not really. Public school teachers are well paid when you consider pension, tenure and low stability. Working in industry can pay more than teaching but this is not a guarantee. A public school teacher doesn’t get fired when they turn 40, or laid off in a downturn. It’s less about money and more about qualifications. having a chemistry degree is not the correct qualification to teach chemistry in a public high school. The labor market between stem practitioners and stem teachers are really not substitutes in any practical sense.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#55

Post by obviouslynotme »

Teacher experience means they have more say in their students. It's common for new teachers to be shoved into the worst schools and classes in the district. Teacher performance doesn't significantly effect student performance. Student ability and home situation are the best predictors. There are exceptionally bad and good teachers, but they are exactly that... exceptions.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#56

Post by EtienneDeLyon »

mikeocool wrote: post #10
EtienneDeLyon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you overpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers for the money. Is a good idea to select the people who hate teaching to become teachers?

Yeah, why would we pay top dollar for top talent and then hold that talent to high standards? That certainly doesn’t work in any other profession.

If you are paying top dollar for top talent, then you are not overpaying anyone.

If you can read, thank a teacher!

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#57

Post by EtienneDeLyon »

syntaxing wrote: post #46

Hot take, I truly believe the answer for HS is yes. I grew up in a school district where the teachers had to have a master degree in the subject they were teaching. Those teachers strongly shaped me who I am today and I believe their advanced degree helped them become great teachers.

Did you grow up wealthy? If yes, it was probably that and not the teachers.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#58

Post by EtienneDeLyon »

class3shock wrote: post #17
EtienneDeLyon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you overpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers for the money. Is a good idea to select the people who hate teaching to become teachers?

When you underpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers because all the people that had better options did something else.

That means overpayment is wrong and underpayment is wrong.

Teachers should be paid the correct amount, no more and no less.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#59

Post by m463 »

blululu wrote: post #54
m463 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of teaching jobs are like that. If you were good at teaching STEM, I think you could probably work nearby in a STEM job for more money.

Not really. Public school teachers are well paid when you consider pension, tenure and low stability. Working in industry can pay more than teaching but this is not a guarantee. A public school teacher doesn’t get fired when they turn 40, or laid off in a downturn. It’s less about money and more about qualifications. having a chemistry degree is not the correct qualification to teach chemistry in a public high school…

I don't know, this doesn't match my experience.

I've been multiple places were the teachers in high-mobility fields were bad because anyone good at them could move up easily. takes just one bad interaction with a superior or nagging from a spouse and poof.

This doesn't apply to people who love teaching, they're in it for different motivations.

Re: Do teachers need advanced degrees?

#60

Post by xigoi »

EtienneDeLyon wrote: post #58
class3shock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you underpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers because all the people that had better options did something else.

That means overpayment is wrong and underpayment is wrong. Teachers should be paid the correct amount, no more and no less.

I love how it took three comments to arrive at a tautology.
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