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Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

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Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#51
post #7

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their…

All age bands deserve age-level programming.

Today's reality is that 90% of BSA's high schoolers are stuck in its middle-school program. They aren't getting age-level programming.

BSA has never strongly denied this. Instead, it acts as if handing the reins of its middle-school program to high schoolers constitutes age-level programming for high schoolers. It does not.

It even further muddies the water, recommending mixed-age patrols. Yes, for real, your freshly crossed-over 10 year old is supposed to be in the same patrol as a 17 yo high-school senior. That is weird. But BSA thinks it's appropriate.

To be clear, I think cross-age-band interactions can have value, but they must be optional, and they must never displace age-level programming. I have separately proposed a new position called Guide. It is a position of responsibility where any youth may elect to help with any younger program. This is a service role, not supervision, not displacing younger youth from owning their program. This replaces Den Chief, Instructor, Junior Asst. Scoutmaster, and Troop Guide.

But importantly, and to reemphasize, Guide must be OPTIONAL. Scouting in no way depends on cross-age-band interactions. They are a value add when they work well. But the BSA view on these interactions resembles a fetish and lacks a rational basis.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#52
post #32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently scoutmaster and that is my thought. Camping is fun, but we do that once a month - what should we do the other times that is fun

My Troop spent a lot of the non-adventure time motivating us to learn skills that we would need on adventures. Knot tying, first aid, camp cooking, paddling technique, carpentry, etc. Many of the leaders were current or former Navy personnel (this was in a town with a maritime school), so they often told engaging stories about how they needed these skills. There were also low-commitment activities in town that childr…

This is all great, and it's even better when it's done in the context of properly age-banded programs.

Many times, the high schooler wants to do different things than the 6th grader. And even when they do the same activity, approaches will be different.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#53
post #24

As scoutmaster the article feels wrong. There are things that I'm sure are wrong but I don't know what they are. the article doesn't seem right either though.

I am confident you invested greatly in the program in good faith.

It's hard to learn of problems with something we deeply invested in. I've been there. It took me years to work through this struggle and come to these positions.

But I find there's an excellent case that BSA can do much better. And it must, or it's going to collapse within 10 years.

The good thing is "do better" is right in front of us. It means catching up with international peers, adopting lessons learned from and norms in our own society, and eliminating irrational deviations from longstanding notions of what Scouting is.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#54

The AI writing patterns here are obnoxious on both a sentence by sentence level and at the level of overall meaning and content. Because a machine wrote this, lacks human intelligence, so is not worth reading.

I wrote this. I am a human.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#55

The AI writing patterns here are obnoxious on both a sentence by sentence level and at the level of overall meaning and content. Because a machine wrote this, lacks human intelligence, so is not worth reading.

I read the text myself and checked it with pangram, it's 95% plus human written (people hate hundred percent so the discount). So I'm asking myself if it is ragebait or Idiocracy. I know that's harsh to say, but throwing in written by AI is harsh as well. (Analysis: Pangram believes that this document is fully human-written https://www.pangram.com/history/c59610e0-aba7-469c-b762-21f7... )

I wrote that piece, and I am human. BTW, AI checkers are garbage. Even though your stat is heavily in my favor, I urge you not to use that stuff.

It is not rage bait. It's good-faith commentary on how a movement has become lost.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#57
post #17

BSA rebranded itself “Scouting America.” The new name initializes to “SA,” common shorthand for sexual assault. Well, as a german and history conscious person I think the acronym could also be taken in a completely different way.

More important context are current BSA youth and incoming generations of BSA Scout parents.

To them, SA = sexual assault.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#58
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only. Are you going to expand on this at all? What is the value in Scouts being male-only?

Boys need to learn how to be men. Just like girls need to learn how to be women. LOADS and LOADS of material available to young girls to accomplish this goal. Lots of funding for them too, to become women. Boys? Boys are _disposable_ and get _no investment_. I'll admit this is my personal perspective. I would be happy to be wrong about this but I just don't see it where I am in the Midwest. So I think the value comes…

The way the program is currently set up, the boy and girl troops are separated completely. There's been no negatives of including girls, only positives that I have seen, and I've been involved for almost 20 years. It's amazing what people construct in their own heads without actually investigating to see the reality.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#59
post #7

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their…

I like this revamp idea, actually. In the troop I help with, we have an older 'venture patrol', and separating these two groups (10-13 vs 14-17) makes a lot of sense. And I don't particularly like the idea of any boy or girl getting Eagle before at least 16...holding leadership positions is really important. I think this structural change would help keep boys and girls interested past age 14. But mostly, I think the organization, which has done over a century of good, needs money to get a branding facelift. If any of these billionaire types want to do good, they could consider that shaping the country's youth with a solid program focused on citizenship, moral judgement, and outdoor skills might be something positive they could be remembered for.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former Eagle Scout here -- I agree a bit with this analysis. The absolute best parts of it for me were the high adventure camps, backpacking, etc. The absolute worst where the Monday meetings. Depending on the vibe of the troop your activities bias one way or the other.

Once you earn it you are an Eagle Scout for life. So you are an Eagle Scout not a “former” Eagle Scout. At least that’s what I was thought!

Hahah yes. Eagle Scout here! Be prepared!
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