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France moves to break encrypted messaging

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Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#51

Post by vkou »

tensor wrote: post #38
HerbManic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think they care but you hit on a point. Governments just keep trying to force this and eventually wear down the resistance to it. They can try repeatedly as it only has to work once.

Yeah, this feels like an exploit used by many governments these days. You see the same thing in the US where the Republicans just keep filing appeals or lawsuits until they eventually get what they want. Over and over and over and over. Governments should probably adopt some sort of "retry" limit for these things. Good luck getting that passed though I suppose.

That would just be abused by people who want to permanently enshrine a bad status quo. They'll file X really shitty, bad faith challenges, and when they all fail, everyone will be permanently stuck with a bad thing.

Imagine if women's suffrage failed 5 times, and hey, guess we'll never get it, 5 times is the limit.

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#52

Post by budududuroiu »

I'll repeat this over and over:

Most EU politicians are aware of needing to lead from positions of deep unpopularity for the next 10-20 years, they're just setting the stage to have the tools to suppress dissent at their disposal. After encryption, my bet is on reduced rights to protest (see UK wanting to ban protests that repeatedly "cause disruption").

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#53

Post by 2ndorderthought »

xethos wrote: post #45
2ndorderthought wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for explaining. I guess we are talking about espionage or something like that. I've been so focused on the rise of domestic surveillance lately that I forgot about the noncitizen aspects. Which is ridiculous but at the same time, it does seem like a trillion dollar focus lately.

My examples are all based on the CIA and NSA playbook though, as it was the NSA director that said the quiet part out loud, explicitly, in front of Congress. The NSA is effectively America's red team, an offensive arm, meaning they (should be) focused on threats (percieved or otherwise) outside the country The FBI has been much quieter about this though - there has yet to be a Snowden-for-the-FBI, though they would b…

Metadata would be more powerful in 9 out of 10 cases. Message contents could be invaluable in some cases too. Interesting to think about

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#54

Post by Georgelemental »

userbinator wrote: post #10
tensor wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sorts of laws have repeatedly failed to pass in Europe due to people protesting. The government just keeps coming back and trying again it seems. What makes you think French citizens don’t care?

Maybe it's time for France to reconsider its relationship with the EU.

The French people did consider that, in the referendum on Maastricht. The politicians ignored the results

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#55

Post by sufficientsoup »

skiing_crawling wrote: post #27

How will they know what's encrypted? Maybe I just like sending random sequences of bytes across the wire

It doesn't even need to be random. What if you send an instance of a proprietary file format? Is the company required to share the spec and toolchain so that the govt can verify it (probably) isn't an encrypted message?

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#56

Post by tardedmeme »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #19
hellcow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WhatsApp claims to be end-to-end-encrypted, but it's not open-source And explicitly does not encrypt metadata. Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We kill people based on metadata."

I imagine in 2027 people will be getting killed over vibes. Does make you wonder what kind of people they kill or how many. I can't think of a lot of crimes whose metadata warrants being killed for personally.

Isn't this already happening? It's why the war department uses ChatGPT and Claude to target drone strikes. It's why Anthropic had to make a public scene to pretend that wasn't happening.

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#57

Post by tardedmeme »

vkou wrote: post #49
skiing_crawling wrote: post #27

How will they know what's encrypted? Maybe I just like sending random sequences of bytes across the wire

I'm sure the judge will love your explanation.

In my home directory is a 4GB random file. I suggest you should do this too. Vary the filename to taste. Some suggestions: the name of any active drug market or cyber threat actor.

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#58

Post by tardedmeme »

novok wrote: post #41
tardedmeme wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which are also known as right and left, respectively. What, did you think right and left were arbitrary? The words are arbitrary, but the meanings are not. They correlate quite strongly with the material interests of the up and down.

Stalin & Mao would like to have a word with you.

... okay? I thought they were dead. What about the entire rest of the world that is left or right. We're not stuck between a choice of Staln (left), and Htler (right) - there are more reasonable people in the world, even more reasonable politicians.

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#59

Post by Teever »

naruhodo wrote: post #47
novok wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Prop 13, for those who don't know... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

Has anyone else noticed a tendency of American users to turn every conversation that isn't about America into one about America?

It would be super neat to not see this turn into yet another conversation about American tax policy.

Re: France moves to break encrypted messaging

#60

Post by adrianwaj »

fn-mote wrote: post #42
adrianwaj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will become more important over time - Telegram and the TON coin are reintegrating. So messaging surveillance is financial surveillance too? Price is going up too. https://x.com/BSCNews/status/2053046567930937817 Upgraded a month ago: https://x.com/durov/status/2042247948147241072 It'd be interesting (horrifying?) to see something that was once assumed secret go public. Imagine if all chats and payments eventually…

> […] something that was once assumed secret go public. Imagine if all chats and […] went public I strongly suspect instead that you would see Polymarket-style insider trading by the few powerful people who have access to the secrets.

Yeah, you would also have to trust Poly staff and media outlets.

But also messaging platforms whereby wiretapping has never been so lucrative.

So what's the CEO of ____ saying about an IPO?

https://kalshi.com/markets/kxipo/ipos/kxipo-26

Time to get friendly with the 'tappers or become one oneself, right?

This news story is so pertinent.

Doctor Evil's secret AI prompt >> Train on messaging and then tell me the most lucrative bets in the prediction markets.

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