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Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

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51–60 of 109 posts

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#51
post #44
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only 1 transmitter at a time per channel - across all WLANs, yours and your neighbours, with no deterministic way to avoid collisions. That’s not correct. You and your neighbor can use the same channel at the same time. On your network, the transmissions of the other network appear will appear as noise. As long as the other devices are far enough away, however, your devices will still be able to make out their own…

This is a common misconception.. you and your neighbour can configure the same channel, you cannot successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel within range. Nor can you and your own AP successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel. When you and your neighbour _appear_ to be transmitting at the same time, each adapter is actually spending most of it's time waiting for a clear medium and for…

> There is only "I received a frame addressed to me and acknowledged it" or "I sent a frame and either did or didn't get an acknowledgement back from the receiver". Receivers do not know why they didn't receive a frame, or, if they received a corrupted frame, why it was corrupted.

That's not correct. WiFi is "listen before talk." Radios listen to the channel, trying to decode preambles from other networks, before transmitting. In that process, they can detect other signals well below the threshold where they'll consider the medium in use (the CCA threshold). If you have an otherwise clean channel, the noise floor might be -95 dBm. Radios typically can decode the preambles 3-4 dB above the noise floor. Conventionally, the WiFi standards set the CCA threshold at -82 dBm. So the radio can "hear" a lot of signals that won't cause it to trigger collision avoidance. More recent standards allow using a CCA threshold as high as -62 dBM under certain circumstances to facilitate spatial reuse: https://arista.my.site.com/AristaCommunity/s/article/Spatial....

Also, what the Wifi standards do is less aggressive than what radios could do. The CCA thresholds are set to facilitate orderly use of the spectrum--they're not physical limits. To receive a transmission, you just need sufficient signal-to-noise ratio. An adjacent network transmission raises the noise floor, but if your radio is close enough to your AP, you might still have sufficient SNR.

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#52
I recently got a Grandstream GWN7615 access point to add coverage on the other side of the house from the main router. It does not meet the minimum spec listed in this article but for more modest requirements I think it's an excellent value. You can get one for well under $100. It is WiFi 5, 3x3 MIMO, and you don't need any cloud account to manage it.

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#53
post #51
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception.. you and your neighbour can configure the same channel, you cannot successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel within range. Nor can you and your own AP successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel. When you and your neighbour _appear_ to be transmitting at the same time, each adapter is actually spending most of it's time waiting for a clear medium and for…

> There is only "I received a frame addressed to me and acknowledged it" or "I sent a frame and either did or didn't get an acknowledgement back from the receiver". Receivers do not know why they didn't receive a frame, or, if they received a corrupted frame, why it was corrupted. That's not correct. WiFi is "listen before talk." Radios listen to the channel, trying to decode preambles from other networks, before tra…

[dead]

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#54

Today I set up a NWA210BE (Zyxel) to replace a unifi 6+ AP; I bought it second hand and my key metrics were: 4x4 MIMO, available used/discounted, current gen, fully functional standalone mode. The 4x4 makes all the difference. Sitting in my car the 6+ would fight with my 4G for internet and cause maps to be super slow; now I'm off the property before its unusable. I had intended to put APs in multiple rooms, but ther…

Inwas about to buy a pair of those, but then I saw the new mikrotik wifi 7 router (and probably upcoming access point) with thread radio.

Now every other brand is dead to me.

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#55
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, it's pretty common to refer to x^2 as exponential colloquially since there's A. an exponent B. a single term for all values (vs. quadratic, cubic, quartic...) But you're technically correct!

Do you also think that f(x) = x^1 is exponential? How about f(x) = x^0?

No. These are polynomials (in x).

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#56
post #12

> Wi-Fi signal strength decreases at an exponential rate as you move further away from a router. This is surprising to me. I'd have guessed it decreases quadratically (i.e. due to the inverse square law), not exponentially. The paragraph below seems to contain an explanation, but I don't really understand it (namely because I don't know what that percentage "Coverage" column actually means, or what we mean with "the…

Did you check out "Appendix I: Wi-Fi signal strength vs distance"? Cheers!

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#57
post #38
post #14

An impressive attempt to summarise Wi-Fi which is a very deep topic. However I think the executive summary already missed the most critical thing about Wi-Fi: only 1 transmitter at a time per channel - across all WLANs, yours and your neighbours, with no deterministic way to avoid collisions. It's a shared medium and it's not even half duplex, unlike the dedicated full duplex you would typically get with an ethernet…

The multi access story is improving, though. OFDMA on wifi7/802.11be: https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/wi-fi-7-mru-ofdma-turning...

It is not even switched on in some early version of WiFi 7 router and receivers.

As a general rule of thumb, the best version of WiFi x will only come with WiFi x+1. So for all the problems to be solved and ironed out on OFDMA it will be WiFi 8 then. And for all the promises of Ultra-High Reliability, it will have to be WIFI 9.

WiFi is clearly moving more towards like 4G and 5G with every version. I just hope someday that it really is good enough where there are many people using it at the same time.

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#58
post #51
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception.. you and your neighbour can configure the same channel, you cannot successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel within range. Nor can you and your own AP successfully transmit at the same time on the same channel. When you and your neighbour _appear_ to be transmitting at the same time, each adapter is actually spending most of it's time waiting for a clear medium and for…

> There is only "I received a frame addressed to me and acknowledged it" or "I sent a frame and either did or didn't get an acknowledgement back from the receiver". Receivers do not know why they didn't receive a frame, or, if they received a corrupted frame, why it was corrupted. That's not correct. WiFi is "listen before talk." Radios listen to the channel, trying to decode preambles from other networks, before tra…

Exactly. If you wanted to be a bad citizen you could get much better WiFi performance in shared environments with just a few small firmware tweaks.

Re: Wi is Fi: Understanding Wi-Fi 4/5/6/6E/7/8 (802.11 n/AC/ax/be/bn)

#60
post #54

Today I set up a NWA210BE (Zyxel) to replace a unifi 6+ AP; I bought it second hand and my key metrics were: 4x4 MIMO, available used/discounted, current gen, fully functional standalone mode. The 4x4 makes all the difference. Sitting in my car the 6+ would fight with my 4G for internet and cause maps to be super slow; now I'm off the property before its unusable. I had intended to put APs in multiple rooms, but ther…

Inwas about to buy a pair of those, but then I saw the new mikrotik wifi 7 router (and probably upcoming access point) with thread radio. Now every other brand is dead to me.

What are the chances of a 3x3 or 4x4 router from them I wonder.
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