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American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

derekthompson.org

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Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#51

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #42
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #22

> Millennial fathers have roughly tripled the amount of time they spend with kids. I think this really undersells it. My mom parented a few hours a week. My kids (like most) lived under ceaseless 24/7 adulting. The time I spent with my sons was more like a 20x increase over my parents' generation. Past that, it seems like it's taking forever for anyone to notice the radical changes in modern parenting/childhood. Alon…

> nearly no one seems to have noticed it. I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, because those topics are so deeply embedded in parenting today that it's like saying "nobody seems to have noticed the internet".

> I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting,

I had minor children from the early 90s to the late 10s. Parenting discussions were pretty much an ongoing thing. When I contrasted my childhood with my kids', there would be a long pause while the other parents realize it didn't used to always be this way.

Perhaps in the last decade awareness has bloomed and for whatever reason, I'm not coming across it. I hope so. That would be great.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#52

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

watwut wrote: post #40
purplerabbit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And guess why trad household structures are (still) popular in some circles

They are way more popular among men then women. The thing is, women were mostly living that ... it is new only for men

What do you mean?

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#53

Post by ai_terk_er_jerb »

pkaler wrote: post #13

Yup. Woke up at 6am. Child 1 woke up at 7am. Dropped her off at daycare at 8am. All the other children were being dropped off by their dads, too. Full day of work ahead. Dinner at 6pm. Bath at 7pm. Bedtime and story at 8pm. Usually calls with Bangalore from 9pm to midnight but it's Labour Day over there. Sleep at midnight. Rinse. Repeat.

[dead]

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#54

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

jaredklewis wrote: post #36
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Millennials on the whole are incredibly neurotic about all kinds of things. Truly, this hasn't been my experience. I'm GenX (edit: not GenZ), my parents were Silent Gen (WWII vets) and my kids are Millennials. My 25yo kids understand behavior and psychology better than my parents ever did. The reason my kids grew up imprisoned is there was nowhere for them to go. The risk to their well-being was never from stranger…

> I'm GenZ, my parents were Silent Gen (WWII vets) and my kids are Millennials. My understanding is that Gen Z comes AFTER millennials, so if you are Z, your kids can't be millennials. Maybe you are Gen X? Also, if your kids are 25 now, then they would be gen z, not millennials. P.S. Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't make up this dumb system or these dumb names ^_^ I agree with everything in your top level comment.

> My understanding is that Gen Z comes AFTER millennials,

You're right. I fat fingered my post.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#55

Post by michaelchisari »

purplerabbit wrote: post #33
mschuster91 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full time career + very present parent during the weekdays might just not be possible. Guess why birth rates are crashing - and why they crash hardest in Asia, especially Japan.

And guess why trad household structures are (still) popular in some circles

Except "trad" households (full time SAHM in a nuclear home) are not traditional. Tradition is not something only the upper-middle class in a post-war boom attained for a short period of time.

Throughout human history, it was rare for only two people to raise a child, let alone one. Or for women to not bring money into the home.

Like many "trad" trends, it's based more on advertising and television than history.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#56

Post by awakeasleep »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #34

Just a note for Dads doing more than their parents - it’s quality more than quantity. Be fully present with your kids more than trying to kill yourself fitting more hours in. That’s what matters. Bad parenting tends to be more of the type that isn’t engaged. Kids don’t hate you for going to work. They are hurt if you come home and ignore them.

If you’re a dad and live in the same house as your kids the time comes naturally… men have been purposefully fleeing it throughout history.

So its not a matter of “killing yourself to get more time” … its a matter of not abandoning your kids and wife to make time for your hobbies or whatever

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#57

Post by ipsento606 »

I can't help but wonder about the relationship between fathers (and, in fact, all parents) spending more time with their children, and people choosing to have fewer children, and later.

I think it's unquestionably true that fathers spending more time with their children is, on the whole, much better for those children.

But it's also true that it's a huge problem for society that people are having fewer children. And I think you can make a reasonable argument that increasing expectations around the quality of parenting are party of that trend.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#58

Post by dividefuel »

gib444 wrote: post #23

I feel there is a trend of not fully appreciating what fathers who spend less time with kids actually do. I think that's unfair, frankly. Many of them do things that contribute to the family in other ways. What was my Dad busy doing? Focusing on his career in order to provide for his family. Doing hobbies that increased his skill set. Fixing the house to ensure we all had a nice safe place to live. Tending to the gar…

I think you have a point: many men work hard to provide stability for their family, and are effectively sacrificing family time to provide that. This kind of hard work feels undervalued in modern parenting discourse, which seems to put most value on time directly spent with children or on direct day-to-day tasks (dishes, cooking, etc).

An example anecdote: my friend works construction. Lots of long hours of hard labor. His wife is unhappy because he doesn't do more childcare, but left unanswered is how he could do more. He can't work fewer hours or move to a new job without a giant income hit. His wife can't earn enough to offset daycare costs. They already live on a fairly thin budget. From the outside, I can see how he'd feel unappreciated.

That said though there are definitely also men who aren't doing childcare OR working hard, and they're happy to have their wife do everything.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#59

Post by compiler-guy »

sjhatfield wrote: post #18

I think this only applies to certain segments of society. My child has type 1 so I'm active on Facebook groups for parents. The number of mums who say their partner is not involved really at all in their child's care is so sad. The child's own father can't supervise their child solo because they can't manage the care. And then the divorced parents. Oh boy...

That's the thing about trends in aggregate data. It tells very little about the details of any particular situation. There are almost certainly a wide variety of subgroups where this particular trend doesn't hold, and others where the changes are even more dramatic.

But the aggregate trend is quite clear.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#60

Post by nradov »

purplerabbit wrote: post #33
mschuster91 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full time career + very present parent during the weekdays might just not be possible. Guess why birth rates are crashing - and why they crash hardest in Asia, especially Japan.

And guess why trad household structures are (still) popular in some circles

Those household structures aren'tpopular, they're just common when women have no other options. I have nothing against those structures, they work great for some families. But the reality is that they often force the wife into becoming an unpaid caregiver for her in-laws (who constantly criticize how she runs the household).
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