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I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

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Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#51

Post by sowbug »

steve1977 wrote: post #31
neilv wrote: post #26

> However, the existence of pirates is a stitch in my craw, particularly when any schoolmarm typing the name of my software into Google is prompted to try stealing it instead: I wonder whether Google, in its Don't Be Evil era, ever considered what they should do about software piracy, and what they decided. I'd guess they would've decided to either discourage piracy, or at least not encourage it. In the screenshot, t…

Did Google ever have a real Don't be Evil era?

The original expression came out of an internal company discussion that someone summarized (paraphrased) as "when there's a tough choice to make, one is usually less evil. Make that choice."

In the early days of Google in the public consciousness, this turned into "you can make money without being evil." (From the 2004 S-1.)

Over time, it got shortened to "don't be evil." But this phrase became an obligatory catchphrase for anyone's gripes against Google The Megacorp. Hey, Google, how come there's no dark mode on this page? Whatever happened to "don't be evil"? It didn't serve its purpose anymore, so it was dropped.

Answering your question really depends on your priors. I could see someone honestly believing Google was never in that era, or that it has always been from the start. I strongly believe that the original (and today admittedly stale) sentiment has never changed.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#52

Post by monooso »

jrm4 wrote: post #40

Great, good riddance. Hopefully open source and/or AI push this person out of developing entirely. People who focus this much on "conversion" et al are dinosaurs who deserve extinction.

First up, this article is 17 years old. There's no reason to assume the author has exactly the same opinions today.

More importantly, the author is talking about the realities of trying to earn a decent living shipping independent software. That requires paying customers.

It's perfectly reasonable to want to be paid for your work, and it certainly doesn't warrant the vitriol in your comment.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#53

Post by nothrabannosir »

binaryturtle wrote: post #49
autonomousErwin wrote: post #14

Grass always looks greener on the other side, mainly because it's been fertilised.

No, "grass always looks greener on the other side" is a perspective thing. If you stand on your own grass then you look down onto it and see the dirt, but if you look over to the other side you see the gras from the side which makes it look more dense and hides the dirt. But it's the same boring grass everywhere. :)

I preferred GPs poop joke version but to each their own.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#54

Post by xp84 »

werdnapk wrote: post #41
xp84 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realizing I could frickin mine enough bitcoins overnight back then to probably be set for life (maybe for multiple generations) now, is one of my biggest life regrets. I assume it’s shared with all other people who were into tech back then but dismissed bitcoin as stupid, as I did.

You simply can't get hung up on what could have been. Same applies to trying to time the stock market... should have bought, should have sold. Best thing is to know there's nothing that can be done about the past and move along and deal with what you can do now instead.

You're right. What gets me though is that unlike the stock market, bitcoin was an incredibly rare occurrence where anyone could have gotten extraordinarily rich without even incurring any risk! (besides a couple evenings spent learning how to use it.) Whereas to have $10MM today in GOOG stock, I would have had to invest over $300k in 2010.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#55

Post by neilv »

Minor49er wrote: post #47
steve1977 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Google ever have a real Don't be Evil era?

If you need to sloganize a reminder to yourself to not be evil, that's not a promising sign

Early in Google's history, I took that sentiment as saying that they were one of us (Internet people), and weren't going to act like Microsoft (at the time, regarded by Internet people as an underhanded and ignorant company). Even though Google had a very nice IR function and general cluefulness, and seemed destined to be big and powerful.

And if it were the altruistic Internet people they hired, the slogan/mantra could be seen as a reminder to check your ego/ambition/enthusiasm, as well as a shorthand for communicating when you were doing that, and that would be respected by everyone because it had been blessed from the top as a Prime Directive.

Today, if a tech company says they aspire not to be evil: (1) they almost certainly don't mean it, in the current culture and investment environment, or they wouldn't have gotten money from VCs (who invest in people motivated like themselves); (2) most of their hires won't believe it, except perhaps new grads who probably haven't thought much about it; and (3) nobody will follow through on it (e.g., witness how almost all OpenAI employees literally signed to enable the big-money finance-bro coup of supposedly a public interest non-profit).

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#56

Post by mohamedkoubaa »

nonethewiser wrote: post #37
ryandrake wrote: post #17

Almost all of Patrick's points are great if your software development goal is to make a buck . They don't seem to matter if you're writing open source, and I'd argue that desktop apps are still relevant and wonderful in the open source world. I just started a new hobby project, and am doing it as a cross-platform, non-Electron, desktop app because that's what I like to develop. The onboarding funnel: Only a concern i…

its just waaaaaay easier to distribute a web app For some things a desktop app is required (more system access) or offers some competitive UX advantage (although this reason is shrinking all the time). Short of that user's are going to choose web 95% of the time.

This points to our failure as an industry to design a universal app engine that isn't a browser.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#57

Post by 1718627440 »

neilv wrote: post #55
Minor49er wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to sloganize a reminder to yourself to not be evil, that's not a promising sign

Early in Google's history, I took that sentiment as saying that they were one of us (Internet people), and weren't going to act like Microsoft (at the time, regarded by Internet people as an underhanded and ignorant company). Even though Google had a very nice IR function and general cluefulness, and seemed destined to be big and powerful. And if it were the altruistic Internet people they hired, the slogan/mantra co…

In other words the company made a bet on peoples naivety and it worked.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#58

Post by otterley »

ryandrake wrote: post #17

Almost all of Patrick's points are great if your software development goal is to make a buck . They don't seem to matter if you're writing open source, and I'd argue that desktop apps are still relevant and wonderful in the open source world. I just started a new hobby project, and am doing it as a cross-platform, non-Electron, desktop app because that's what I like to develop. The onboarding funnel: Only a concern i…

To be fair, probably most of us here on HN write software to put food on the table. Don’t pooh-pooh our careers.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#59

Post by ux266478 »

sowbug wrote: post #51
steve1977 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Google ever have a real Don't be Evil era?

The original expression came out of an internal company discussion that someone summarized (paraphrased) as "when there's a tough choice to make, one is usually less evil. Make that choice." In the early days of Google in the public consciousness, this turned into "you can make money without being evil." (From the 2004 S-1.) Over time, it got shortened to "don't be evil." But this phrase became an obligatory catchphr…

Making a loud affair out its retirement rather than quietly letting it collect dust and be forgotten over time was most definitely not a good idea.

The public already demonstrated that they adopted, misused and weaponized the maxim. Its retirement just sharpened the edge of that weapon. Now instead of "What happened to don't be evil?" it's become "Of course Google is being evil." and everything exists in that lens.

Re: I'm done making desktop applications (2009)

#60

Post by theK »

ryandrake wrote: post #17

Almost all of Patrick's points are great if your software development goal is to make a buck . They don't seem to matter if you're writing open source, and I'd argue that desktop apps are still relevant and wonderful in the open source world. I just started a new hobby project, and am doing it as a cross-platform, non-Electron, desktop app because that's what I like to develop. The onboarding funnel: Only a concern i…

I see a lot of this sentiment amongst developer friends but I never could relate. Its not that I'm against it or something but it just doesn't move me personally.

Most things I create in my free time are for my and my family's consumption and typically benefit immensely from the write once run everywhere nature of the web.

You can launch a small toy app on your intranet and run it from everywhere instantly. And typically these things are also much easier to interconnect.

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