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ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

arxiv.org

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Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#51

Transient 'objects' after nuclear tests are quite possibly high energy radiation from the tests themselves. Remember these are on film, and the film is likely removed from its protective housing for some time before, during, and after imaging. (And in many cases protective housing wouldn't help anyway.) I get the sense that this topic is popular because "aliens y'all". It's much more likely to be radiation. It's poss…

no, i think it's worse than that, and it's right in the study: "the nuclear correlation is just a function of which days Palomar was observing on... even that is not statistically significant. It's just noise." - https://www.metabunk.org/threads/transients-in-the-palomar-o... another POV is the paper is sloppy in the parts that matter Machine Learning goes both ways. A chatbot is not predisposed to ruin aliens enthus…

Chatbots are certainly not objective. There are countless articles are this that and the other bias with them. The whole sycophancy blowup or their basic inability to choose a fair random number without assistance should clearly demonstrate that they have many implicit biases. The distribution of answers chatbots give to questions is being constantly and deliberately tweaked by their developers.

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#52

Transient 'objects' after nuclear tests are quite possibly high energy radiation from the tests themselves. Remember these are on film, and the film is likely removed from its protective housing for some time before, during, and after imaging. (And in many cases protective housing wouldn't help anyway.) I get the sense that this topic is popular because "aliens y'all". It's much more likely to be radiation. It's poss…

When I was a research physicist I spent a lot of time looking at the effects of ionizing radiation in pictures, although mostly in the context of digital images. The mechanisms are a bit different for photo emulsions, but to me the reason I'd discount radiation is because they're specifically filtering for features that exhibit the expected point spread function (which is a geometric property of the telescope's optic…

  > Overall it seems pretty unscientific.
I'd agree with all your points and add some things to help people better "sniff-test" these kinds of papers.

  1) The paper is suggesting aliens... your suspicion hats should always go on
    - Carl Sagan said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Is the evidence extra-ordinary?
  2) The authors aren't experts
    - Stephen Bruehl: A doctor of Anesthesiology
    - Brian Doherty: "Independent Researcher"[0]
    - Alina Streblyanska: Actually maybe a astrophysics researcher?[1]
    - Beatriz Villarroel: The top Google hit for her is for a UFO wikipedia[2]
  3) Authors don't share affiliations
    - Corresponding author has no domain expertize and no clear affiliation to others.
  4) Authors have hints of metric hacking
    - Villarroel has 8 citations in a paper with only 18[3]
  5) The GitHub repo is dead: https://github.com/dca-doherty/VASCO-ML
None of these things are enough to conclude that the paper is wrong, but they are red flags and don't require actually understanding any of the details of the paper.

If you do understand statistics there's clearly more red flags. The +/- windowing being a pretty big one, since there are much better tools for this (errors don't need to be symmetric! Nor do they need to be uniform!). There's also a pretty big assumption made that cshimmin didn't mention: the paper assumes all nuclear tests are in the public record. But I also assume if you have a strong statistics background then there's a high probability you didn't upvote the post.

[0] The man has effectively no online presence. Google searching his email yields effectively nothing except people posting about this paper in UFO groups (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22briandohertyresearch%40gm...). His linked GitHub also makes him anonymous (https://github.com/dca-doherty/) and his website linked is just about finding day care in Texas. He has one more paper on ArXiv, but it is from a few weeks prior

[1] Found their Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alina-streblyanska-95b2375b/). Their most recent paper is also on UAPs, along with Villarroel. But also, they work for "Society of UAP Studies", which should be a big red flag. Also, they were working as a Post-doc for 12 years, which is a bit insane

[2] https://www.wikidisc.org/wiki/Beatriz_Villarroel and here's here Google Scholar https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=_Jc8gm0AAAAJ

[3] I looked at some other papers of hers and they show a similar pattern. This explains her citation count (which is rather low) and h-index (it's better to just click on the references and you'll see it's predominantly her referencing herself):

  - 2602.15171: 9 citations total, 8 are hers
  - "A cost-effective search for extraterrestrial probes in the Solar system" has many more, but still 6 to herself (and 3 to Loeb)
  - Transients in the Palomar Observatory Sky Survey (Yes, this is in "Nature"): 20 citations, 5 hers
  - Aligned, Multiple-transient Events in the First Palomar Sky Survey: 11/36
  - On the Image Profiles of Transients in the Palomar Sky Survey: 5/5
  - A Civilian Astronomer's Guide to UAP Research: 7/98 (actually not a red flag, but the title sure is...)
  - and so on

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#53
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there might be something else more interesting that is neither obvious nor aliens.

I tend to think there is a really good chance all the "its aliens" phenomena are natural phenomena that we are hundreds of years away from even having the tools to study. Probably like early humans trying to guess what the sun is made of.

https://www.history.com/articles/cottingley-fairies-altered-...

There aren't any wood fairies either.

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're there before the tests though, and potentially more frequent around nuclear testing calendar days. The argument has never been "these only showed up after a nuclear test."

Two things here: radiation exposure could explain this, since there's a period after exposure and before developing where you can get radiation exposure. Second, and perhaps more importantly, is that there's a detailed criticism of this line of research available, including evidence against the argument that these are more likely ±1 day of nuclear tests. See https://arxiv.org/pdf/2601.21946 , and also https://arxiv.o…

[deleted]

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#55

Awhile ago I built my own ML pipeline to automate scanning these plates, it was very revealing. Beatriz and her team were very helpful. https://arxiv.org/abs/2604.04810

Did you end up with similar results/conclusions?

The transients were pretty easy to replicate yes. The nuclear testing stuff was pretty inconclusive but they have a much better curated collection of plates that aren't available yet.

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#57

Transient 'objects' after nuclear tests are quite possibly high energy radiation from the tests themselves. Remember these are on film, and the film is likely removed from its protective housing for some time before, during, and after imaging. (And in many cases protective housing wouldn't help anyway.) I get the sense that this topic is popular because "aliens y'all". It's much more likely to be radiation. It's poss…

[dead]

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#58
post #41

The lead author on this paper is a professor of anesthesiology. I think it's fairly safe to describe its conclusion as crank-adjacent, if not outright cranky.

Wake up sheeple! Oh.. uh hold on a second... removes anesthesia mask from patient Wake up sheeple!

https://xkcd.com/1013/

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

Nobody has ever found the slightest smidgen of evidence of aliens, nor any plausible theory of what aliens would be like. It's about as likely as someone inventing a car that runs on water.

Plenty of evidence has been found. For one, the US government has leaked/released a video showing instant acceleration of a flying object. Nothing on earth can do that.

Re: ML supports existence of unrecognized transient astronomical phenomena

#60
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever found the slightest smidgen of evidence of aliens, nor any plausible theory of what aliens would be like. It's about as likely as someone inventing a car that runs on water.

While it's always good to elevate evidence-based knowledge above "woo" or "belief", it's not healthy to close your mind off completely against anything that isn't currently proven. We might know that we don't know a lot of things, but the most interesting thought experiments happen in the area that concerns the things we don't know that we don't know.

One can go to /r/UFOs and see plenty of "interesting thought experiments" happening in that area, and while that might be entertaining, it isn't compelling.

I think closing one's mind off 99.999% to "it's aliens" is perfectly healthy and justified. When you remove the folklore, memes, psyops and apply Occaam's Razor to the "evidence" and sort out mistaken natural phenomena, misinterpreted data, classified but terrestrial technology and outright hoaxes, you aren't left with much of anything, and certainly nothing definite. There is no reason to assume the phenomenon mentioned in the linked paper demonstrates the presence of alien spacecraft but the UFO community is going to run with it anyway.

Call me when David Grusch comes through with that "catastrophic disclosure" we were promised or when Lue Elizondo can tell the difference between a starship and a chandelier. This is just Bob Lazar and Majestic-12 all over again.

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