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As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

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Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#51

Post by virgildotcodes »

bilsbie wrote: post #33
JMKH42 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What about it is nonsense? You don’t think there’s any bias due to securing funding?

Do you think your conclusions might be ideologically driven rather than driven by evidence in this case?

Do you think the financial incentives for broke ass scientists trying to secure rapidly dwindling scientific grants are greater than those behind the global fossil fuel industry and other industries (virtually all) that have a detrimental effect on the environment?

Really man? You think the cabal is the postdocs living on $60k a year and not the multinational corporations with a history of things like tobacco companies funding studies that prove smoking isn't bad for you and exxon funding scientists and research trying to disprove climate change?

Completely detach yourself from your belief system and political ideology, step back, and look at the facts on the ground objectively, where money and power rests, how it flows, without any concern for protecting your pre-existing belief system. Where does sense, an understanding of incentives, and probability lead you?

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#52

Post by Scarblac »

qsera wrote: post #42
HelloMcFly wrote: post #14

I want to ignore these articles as it is so painful to watch the beautiful clockwork of the natural world unravel. I hate facing the suffering, diminishment, and extinction of so much in the name of profiteering and ever-increasing growth. But this is the world now, there will only be more stories like this, and so I'm not turning away from it any further. The world becomes less beautiful, less rich, less full every…

>natural world unravel Natural world would be mostly fine one way or other, human beings might not survive though...

No, we're very resilient bastards, we're going to let the huge majority of species go extinct before we go ourselves. We're already in a mass extinction event and we're just getting started.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#53

Post by MisterTea »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #14

I want to ignore these articles as it is so painful to watch the beautiful clockwork of the natural world unravel. I hate facing the suffering, diminishment, and extinction of so much in the name of profiteering and ever-increasing growth. But this is the world now, there will only be more stories like this, and so I'm not turning away from it any further. The world becomes less beautiful, less rich, less full every…

It's hard when your job and even hobbies are intertwined with this destruction. I enjoy working with computers and industrial machinery - two giant sources of pollution and social disruption. I sometimes feel this existential crisis where I am part of the problem yet I have no way to escape and become filled with guilt. Yet without this technology our lives would be more difficult.

I sometimes think about a post-industrial fantasy world where technology still exists, though minimally, and carefully applied to solve real problems humanity faces instead of selling FOMO or millions of "shiny things" that wind up in land fills so you can sell the new FOMO/shinything so some numbers on a spread sheet goes up.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#54

Post by user3939382 »

It’s a white noise so hard to notice, but our behavior is fundamentally driven by the design of our nervous system. Thus the more immediate the consequence, the better we link our behavior and can adjust. Since this is true at an individual level, the dynamic emerges from societies and populations as well, even large ones.

For example, something is red, you touch it, get burned. You won’t touch it again.

Environmental harm unfortunately is precisely the opposite. Consequences arise on a very long arc, in some cases beyond even our lifetimes. We register problems like this only intellectually, and even that becomes clouded with politics.

So the problem is kind of inevitable unfortunately.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#56

Post by scottyah »

mempko wrote: post #17
vivzkestrel wrote: post #6

- stupid question - if everyone on the entire planet went 100% vegan from tomorrow, will carbon emissions really go down by 60%?

Most of the emissions are done by the 100 biggest corporations. That's where I'd start fixing things.

The smaller ones are most likely less efficient (which blocked their growth). So it'd be a game of whack-a-mole where every hit makes everything worse...

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#57

Post by ctoth »

everdrive wrote: post #45
HelloMcFly wrote: post #14

I want to ignore these articles as it is so painful to watch the beautiful clockwork of the natural world unravel. I hate facing the suffering, diminishment, and extinction of so much in the name of profiteering and ever-increasing growth. But this is the world now, there will only be more stories like this, and so I'm not turning away from it any further. The world becomes less beautiful, less rich, less full every…

But on the plus side a few companies increased shareholder value. Can you imagine if we had fewer products, or didn't push the human population its theoretical maximum?

Who is we? Which we opted to push the planet to carrying capacity? Is it? What is the capacity? Are the decreasing birthrates across the world really the Earth's theoretical maximum? What does it mean to have fewer products, which things precisely should we not have? Who should be in charge of setting this?

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#58

Post by scottyah »

wongarsu wrote: post #23
micromacrofoot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe, but only because a lot of people would starve... that's a demand change our food supply isn't currently structured to handle long term with a proper transition, probably not 60% but likely some lower double-digit percentage (maybe closer to 20?)

We grow a lot of human-edible food for the sole purpose to feed it to livestock, who then spend most of those calories on existing and put a small portion into body mass that we eventually eat. Sure, that stuff isn't of the same quality as food grown for human consumption, but putting livestock on a diet and diverting some of their food to human consumption would more than cover any shortfall from the missing meat

Yes, only the rich should be allowed to eat the basic food group of natural meat.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#59

Post by bilsbie »

acuozzo wrote: post #49
bilsbie wrote: post #36

My main skepticism (Shark lover here btw!) Is that sharks are an ancient species and they’ve survived way warmer oceans even relatively recently. For example the Medieval Warm Period Sargasso Sea surface temperatures were 1°C warmer than 400 years ago, and Pacific Ocean water temperatures were 0.65°C warmer than the decades before.

Were there any periods in which the rate of change in warming was the same or greater?

I think there’s debate on the current numbers but I’ve heard sea surface temperatures are currently about 0.5°C above the 1981-2010 average.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#60

Post by [deleted] »

concinds wrote: post #47
HelloMcFly wrote: post #14

I want to ignore these articles as it is so painful to watch the beautiful clockwork of the natural world unravel. I hate facing the suffering, diminishment, and extinction of so much in the name of profiteering and ever-increasing growth. But this is the world now, there will only be more stories like this, and so I'm not turning away from it any further. The world becomes less beautiful, less rich, less full every…

Blaming "profiteering and ever-increasing growth" is way too easy. Can any legislature get away with dramatically increasing taxes on meat, fish, gas, and plane tickets, just at a level high enough to account for environmental externalities? Even dictatorships couldn't get away with it because it would cause too much unrest.

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