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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#51

Post by surajrmal »

syoleene wrote: post #29
bjornroberg wrote: post #6

The detail that keeps getting lost in these threads: the "advanced flow" for power users is delivered through Google Play Services, not the Android OS. That's the whole game. It means the safeguard is not part of AOSP. It ships as a closed component that Google can narrow, gate, or remove in any Play Services update, with no Android version bump, no OEM coordination, no user consent beyond the usual auto-update. "Ope…

If the "advanced flow" is delivered through play services, what does this mean for degoogled Android phones? Or are those not concerned with the new side loading limitations? Put simply, If I were to install plain AOSP and F-Droid would I be able to continue installing apps normally?

Yes because enforcement of the signing is also done via Google play services.

Re: Keep Android Open

#52

Post by dethos »

As I mentioned previously, the writing is on the wall. It is a matter of time.

We definitely need a true alternative on the market, preferably open, to balance things out and to free everyone from the duopoly. The political pressure that is needed is not to “keep” Android open, but to ensure that governments and institutions don't double down on the existing duopoly. Ensure that interoperability standards are in place, and don't lock people into the existing big tech platforms/solutions.

Re: Keep Android Open

#53

Post by fsflover »

srslyTrying2hlp wrote: post #4

We need a financial way to reward the resistance. Big corps do not care, as we saw them cave to Apple. Anyway, I did my part, basically I only use FDroid. I filled this out: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITk... >Combat astroturfing: when you encounter suspect posts on community forums and social media in support of the policy (“Well, actually…”), challenge them and do not be shy. Someone co…

> We need a financial way to reward the resistance

Here you go: https://eff.org, https://edri.org, https://noyb.eu

Re: Keep Android Open

#54

Post by fsflover »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #32
bjornroberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. The vocabulary ratchet is underrated as a policy tool. "Install" became "sideload." "Sideload" became "install from unknown sources." "Unknown sources" is becoming "unverified packages." Each rename shifts the Overton window a little further from "this is the normal way to put software on a computer you own" toward "this is a suspicious deviation Google has graciously decided to tolerate for now." By the…

On the other side of the coin, those of us doing tech support for unsavvy family members do not want them installing software from any source but some vetted app store. Making it a bit harder is a real boon for those of us that still carry the mental scars of so many Bonzi Buddy removals.

Do you consider F-Droid a "vetted app store"?

Re: Keep Android Open

#55

Post by drnick1 »

zb3 wrote: post #48
drnick1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by "Android." FOSS distributions such as Lineage or Graphene are unaffected by developer verification or other restrictions, and are truly open in the sense that they are controlled by the user.

> and are truly open in the sense that they are controlled by the user. I don't see them altering the permission model, you probably meant the possibility of modifying the system by tools such as Magisk, which indeed make it possible to install software much less restricted.. .. but you can do that on any device with an unlockable bootloader. Graphene/Lineage only remove some Google spyware. Try to install a Lineage…

> Try to install a Lineage phone app on GrapheneOS to understand what I mean

I am not sure what you mean here. Any Android app should work on both Lineage and Graphene, it's the same base system. Graphene's debloating also goes far beyond removing some Google spyware. By default, there are no Google libraries, Play Store and Google apps.

Re: Keep Android Open

#56

Post by tantalor »

JeremyNT wrote: post #42
tantalor wrote: post #15

> it will no longer be possible to develop apps for the Android platform without first registering centrally with Google This is inaccurate. The enforcement is through Google Mobile Services. The article fails to point out that some manufacturers build versions/forks of Android that do not include GMS, but these are still technically Android.

A distinction without a difference. If you want to develop an app for more than a miniscule fraction of Android devices, you need Google's blessing.

Not quite.

Somewhere in the range of 25%-30% of Android devices (1-1.3 billion) don't rely on Google services. Mostly Xiaomi, Oppo, and Vivo devices in China, but also in Russia, Indonesia, and Thailand. And all Huawei devices.

Sources: https://commandlinux.com/android/android-global-market-share..., https://support.google.com/android/thread/29434011/answering...

Re: Keep Android Open

#57

Post by zb3 »

drnick1 wrote: post #55
zb3 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and are truly open in the sense that they are controlled by the user. I don't see them altering the permission model, you probably meant the possibility of modifying the system by tools such as Magisk, which indeed make it possible to install software much less restricted.. .. but you can do that on any device with an unlockable bootloader. Graphene/Lineage only remove some Google spyware. Try to install a Lineage…

> Try to install a Lineage phone app on GrapheneOS to understand what I mean I am not sure what you mean here. Any Android app should work on both Lineage and Graphene, it's the same base system. Graphene's debloating also goes far beyond removing some Google spyware. By default, there are no Google libraries, Play Store and Google apps.

You can't install the LineageOS phone app (with more modern looks) on GrapheneOS, because:

- the package name is already taken and to replace app with the same name the package needs to be signed with the same key which you don't have

- even if you modify package name, it's a system privileged app, privileged apps may only be installed by Google/vendors (unless you're recompiling the OS [64GiB RAM needed])

- if you strip all the privileges, functions like call recording won't work.

Same for contacts and so on..

Re: Keep Android Open

#58

Post by BaseBaal »

freedomben wrote: post #34
srslyTrying2hlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-Droid is amazing. I basically wont install anything from the playstore unless its my bank or something. Video games on F-Droid are how Android games should be. They have the spirt: No ads, no micro transactions, etc.. Kids educational games are the same. I have been using those games only for years and I've had 0 issues. Playstore games, you get an update and now your progress is frozen unless you pay. Guitar tuner…

Fully agree. Can you recommend some games, and kids educational games? I've tried a few and like them, but would love some recs. The ones I like: Breakout 71, Chess, Word Maker, Word Tracer, Roboyard, FaFa Runner (short but briefly fun), Minesweeper (Privacy Friendly), Simon Tatham's Puzzles, SuperTuxKart, Tux Rider.

Vector Pinball is a must have.

Re: Keep Android Open

#59

Post by bigfishrunning »

fsflover wrote: post #54
bigfishrunning wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of the coin, those of us doing tech support for unsavvy family members do not want them installing software from any source but some vetted app store. Making it a bit harder is a real boon for those of us that still carry the mental scars of so many Bonzi Buddy removals.

Do you consider F-Droid a "vetted app store"?

Yes I do but I don't want to help my parents install it

Re: Keep Android Open

#60

Post by dlcarrier »

At this point, I'm just going to run a desktop OS on all of my future phones.

I've given up on cell phone software, but I wish cell phone hardware were better. I'm okay with a processor that isn't the latest and greatest, as long as it isn't in so-old-it-draws-watts-at-idle PinePhone territory, but fast processors seems to be all that phone manufacturers care about. They cut corners everywhere else, precluding the headphone ports, expandable storage, replaceable batteries, infrared transmitters, and physical buttons that made older phones much more useful, and they not only make the screens skinnier, but they literally cut off the corners. I want a nice uninterrupted at least 9:16 aspect ratio, if not higher.

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