Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is • Hacker News Board

Re: Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is

#51

Post by crawfordcomeaux » Wed, Apr 15, 2026, 8:58 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #44

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that I said something so dualistic like that or that actual caring ways couldn't possibly include healing sciences learned are both delusional projections and a form of dishonesty you practiced on yourself there. Especially when there have been recent scientific developments regarding learning how ancient ways, such as how bilateral simulation from drumming/dancing in ceremonial ritual trance with polyphonic…

You said we should return to a pre-civilizational state of animist goddess worship. You even implied we should abandon language. That's about as dualistic an option as one can get. No doctor worth their salt would ever claim that ritual trance and polyphonic singing could replace modern medicine, and I'm guessing that for all of the anarcho-primitivist spiel, you probably take a Tylenol when you have a headache rathe…

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Re: Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is

#52

Post by satisfice » Thu, Apr 16, 2026, 3:20 PM UTC

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #5

And the default civilization is violent. So let us return to the matrilineal, matrifocal ways developed by those who created and nurtured life before we had a language that covered all of our needs and build replacement civilizations from there. Time to get back into the nonbinary animist ways of being.

The last time that was tried, patriarchy devoured it like a delicious chocolate.

Before you can achieve your vision you will have to learn how to appease angry, lustful, ambitious men. The only way patriarchy retires for good is if it is granted a kushy pension.

Re: Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is

#53

Post by throwawaypath » Thu, Apr 16, 2026, 3:55 PM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #41

throwawaypath wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He glosses over Muslim history and al-Andalus with a "the Muslims were driven out of Spain" like Spain itself wasn't Muslim for almost 800 years. Yes, the colonists were driven out. We should celebrate any time in history native and indigenous people defeat their colonizers and reclaim their indigenous lands.

The descendants of the Muslim colonists were defeated by the descendants of the Roman colonists, fighting under the banner of the Roman Church, and not by the native and indigenous people of the Iberian peninsula. The native and indigenous people of the Iberian peninsula would be the Celtic, Iberian, Celtiberian and Aquitanian tribes conquered, colonized, and assimilated by the Roman Republic. The land was later occu…

>The descendants of the Muslim colonists

Yes, colonists, nonnative invaders.

>were defeated by the descendants of the Roman colonists

Incorrect, by native Spaniards whose ancestry is overwhelmingly indigenous:

"Modern Iberians' genetic inheritance largely derives from the pre-Roman inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula who were deeply Romanized after the conquest of the region by the ancient Romans"[0]

They are the indigenous people to Iberia, not MENA colonists nor Romans.

>fighting under the banner of the Roman Church

Not relevant, still indigenous people.

>and not by the native and indigenous people of the Iberian peninsula.

False as proven above.

>The native and indigenous people of the Iberian peninsula would be the Celtic, Iberian, Celtiberian and Aquitanian tribes conquered, colonized, and assimilated by the Roman Republic.

Spaniards are Iberian, they are the indigenous, native people to Spain. They may have been assimilated into the Roman Republic and Visigothic Kingdom, but they are the indigenous people to their lands.

>The land was later occupied by the Germanic peoples before entering Muslim rule.

Germaic influences leave a smaller genetic mark than Roman in modern Iberia.

"Spaniards, or Spanish people, are an ethnic group and nation indigenous to Spain."[1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_Iberian...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaniards

Re: Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is

#54

Post by noumenon1111 » Thu, Apr 16, 2026, 10:59 PM UTC

throwawaypath wrote: post #32

noumenon1111 wrote: post #14

He glosses over Muslim history and al-Andalus with a "the Muslims were driven out of Spain" like Spain itself wasn't Muslim for almost 800 years. And then, the Enlightenment created the most peaceful time in human history, really? Seems like mutual assured destruction is what makes peace, not sound philosophy. People are forgetful and argumentative, by nature. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can have nice t…

>He glosses over Muslim history and al-Andalus with a "the Muslims were driven out of Spain" like Spain itself wasn't Muslim for almost 800 years. Yes, the colonists were driven out. We should celebrate any time in history native and indigenous people defeat their colonizers and reclaim their indigenous lands.

Many native Iberians who were Muslim were either driven out or were paid an unexpected visit by the Spanish Inquisition.

Re: Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is

#55

Post by throwawaypath » Fri, Apr 17, 2026, 8:51 PM UTC

noumenon1111 wrote: post #54

throwawaypath wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He glosses over Muslim history and al-Andalus with a "the Muslims were driven out of Spain" like Spain itself wasn't Muslim for almost 800 years. Yes, the colonists were driven out. We should celebrate any time in history native and indigenous people defeat their colonizers and reclaim their indigenous lands.

Many native Iberians who were Muslim were either driven out or were paid an unexpected visit by the Spanish Inquisition.

A small price to pay.