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Programming Used to Be Free

purplesyringa.moe

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#51
post #13

Traveling used to be free. You could walk, run or swim anywhere you wanted. Now these cars and airplanes are ruining travel, they are expensive and hard to maintain. You have to buy tickets from vendors and the experience is completely different than walking.

This, but with people constantly asking you why you’re cycling to work when cars are the future.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#52

So far it still seems like it still is, but I think we will shortly have a lot of convoluted and very sparsely informational code that will be a PITA to read as a human. I'm already reading a ton of LLM generated code by less skilled developers and understanding and reviewing it requires a paranoid attention to detail of the reader that I think you probably lack if these tools to generate large chunks of code seems l…

> Very tangential, but I could swear QBasic included an on-disk documentation system accessible from the editor. Maybe only later versions?

Perhaps my installation didn't include it, or maybe you're confusing it with QuickBASIC, a more feature-complete IDE with a compiler (instead of just an interpreter). I don't exactly remember.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#54
This depends on your definitions of "free" and "programming". Can you afford a PC? Can you afford internet to access documentation? A lot of people can't. Likewise, what is "programming" to you? Hello World in Python? Or fixing a driver bug in the Linux kernel? Those are worlds apart in terms of hardware requirements just to complete the build.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#55

Even back in the day you had to buy programming books and courses if you wanted to learn how to make the best code. That wasn't free. It's really not all that different from LLMs, you can code without them, but they're a good resource to help you when you're stuck. There's a billion free LLMs you can use, Grok, duck.ai, etc. you don't need money or a subscription to vibe code.

>Even back in the day you had to buy programming books and courses if you wanted to learn how to make the best code. That wasn't free

"Even before the extinction level meteor hit Ohio, there were tiny meteors hitting Earth all the time, it wasn't that safe either".

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And prior to the desktop computer, you had to actually go work at a laboratory in order to do any programming whatsoever, which required significant amounts of educational and social access What’s the point? Writing deploying and delivering software has never been as accessible as it has ever been Much like the author I learned on my own too and with a lot less help because I didn’t have a parent even guiding me thro…

that is literally what this article is about, how returning to that is a bad thing

But that is not under threat and I’m not sure why people think it is

None of the arguments demonstrate even accidentally that there is LESS knowledge or fewer options.

This is the least locked in period and the better AI gets it will be an option to be even less locked in because you can just build and run everything yourself on your own hardware

Literally anyone can run the equivalent of an entire datacenter from 2000 on a handful of retired servers and old laptops at this point.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#58
One niggle... Basic wasn't really free either. At least not QB45, etc. It's wasn't super expensive, but it wasn't free... Also worth a mention is computers themselves back in the 80's and early 90's costs as much or more than the cars a lot of people were driving at the time. I remember seeing a used XT in 1993 for around $200 or so, which was cheap enough, but state of the art was an 80486 DX2 66...

Today, you can get an entry level sub for Claude Code or Codex for about $20/month... and while that may be really expensive in some parts of the world, it's not nearly as bad as a single state of the art compiler or dev tools in the early 90's over the course of a year or two until the next version came out. Let alone something like an MSDN subscription.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#59

Programming is free if you do not consider price of your time. If you consider it, it is much higher than AI-associated costs. And even with AI-associated costs, it is still much cheaper than most other engineering professions, where physical realization is orders of magnitude more costly.

Well of course. The article is about the author's experience of being a young person with no money but plenty of time. This is exactly the kind of person that could be excluded by a programming culture that requires extensive use of LLMs.

LLMs aren't a requirement though.. and if you're learning, you're probably better off without the things. I was pretty down and out after the .com bubble burst and was staying in a house a friend was renovating without internet access for a while... I learned C# from a big fat book and the beta command line compiler... for years, I knew the language and tools better than my peers.

You can't get that level of depth with an LLM... because you generally won't be digging in... for that matter, if you're vibe coding, you're even further removed from the details of how things are being done for better or worse.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#60

Programming is free if you do not consider price of your time. If you consider it, it is much higher than AI-associated costs. And even with AI-associated costs, it is still much cheaper than most other engineering professions, where physical realization is orders of magnitude more costly.

Well of course. The article is about the author's experience of being a young person with no money but plenty of time. This is exactly the kind of person that could be excluded by a programming culture that requires extensive use of LLMs.

If you were a young person with plenty of time, the best way you could spend it would be learning to program without AI- whether you have money or not.
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