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Layoff Thinking

blogs.newardassociates.com

51–60 of 104 posts

Re: Layoff Thinking

#51
Internal assessment of self-worth is one thing. But one thing that I noticed while I was between jobs, was that the rest of the world was also built under the assumption that you "had a job".

Sign up for financial anything, they always ask you, which company you're with? What's your title? What's the range of your income?

I don't know if this is the case in the US, but in my country, I couldn't even open a brokerage account because the automated form required an office job. Entering freelancing or anything of some sort will get auto-rejected.

So it is in your face, all the time. And actually at that time I was fortunate enough not to have to worry about bills etc.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#52
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure any recruiter's primary motivation is to find a fit for the role so they can get their commission.

I'm talking in-house recruiters/HR, not the external broker types

those ones typically don't have the vested interest but are just as clueless and probably have a worse ageism bias. It's hard enough for technical people to assess talent; in-house recruiters at best are weak keyword matchers, at least IME.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#53
> great deal of our identity into what we do [...] establish our identity [...] taking away their national identity [...] re-center your sense of identity away from work

This obsession with "identity" (and its counterpart in the Bay Area, "prestige") is so utterly bizarre to me. I was fortunate to end up in relatively well-paying jobs at well-known tech companies, but I told my partner if someone offered me $900k per year to scrub toilets (with good work life balance and job stability), I'd happily switch to doing that instead.

I do feel like this identity-based perspective has some strong cultural influences. Certain regions of the world or U.S. seem to care a lot more about peer-perception than others. I grew up in an area of the U.S. that might be considered "working class oriented" and no one cared about credentials. The first thought after getting laid off or fired certainly would not be "what does this say about me?"

Re: Layoff Thinking

#54
post #13
post #3

> We are so conditioned to believe that we have no inherent worth in capitalism unless we are EARNING. This is a fabulation, right. What kind of POS parent would instill self-worth on money and career into their kids? Apart from being amoral and flawed at the core, it would often lead to mental issues since amount of people that like (not even love) their work is in low single digit %

> This is a fabulation, right. What kind of POS parent would instill self-worth on money and career into their kids? They are not POS, they're trapped in systems and perspectives that push them to do this. Often they are the same kind of parent who had that instilled in them as kids and never had to self-examine those values or the systems that drove them. If not a majority of parents, I'd guess a huge percentage fit…

I think its laziness. Having long difficult conversations with your kids takes effort. Chucking them into a STEM path they dont care about is way easier.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#55

I don't know. When I was laid off, I had no questions about my identity or self worth. I knew it wasn't any fault of mine, the company was just failing because the business plan was bad. My worry was how I was going to manage my budget, how long my savings would last, etc. It was 100% practical concerns. I didn't worry about my identity, I worried about my mortgage. I knew I had savings to last many months, but not s…

It certainly can be both, no? It was for me at least

It can be both, one or the other, or neither.

I've been a professional software developer for over 30 years. I've been laid off multiple times in that timespan. None of those layoffs phased me in the slightest, all of them were at least semi-expected because there were signs that the company I worked for was in financial trouble prior to the layoffs. It didn't feel the least bit personal, didn't damage my sense of self-worth and I always just found a new job, usually in a matter of days, so I also never felt the practical financial pinch.

But... I am less sure of that outcome repeating if I were to be laid off today given the combination of my age and the stagnant job market in tech.

If I got laid off tomorrow, it wouldn't impact my ego or self-worth just like prior layoffs didn't, but assuming the general extended-"Open to Work"-linkedin vibe of the past year or so is accurate I'd be a lot more concerned about the practical economic impacts than I ever was previously. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but as someone who has always enjoyed working at smaller companies rather than FAANG-type places I'm also not retire-whenever-I-want well off.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#56
post #2

I don't understand the American "what do you do?" as first introduction. It's more fun to ask "how do you know 'x'" where 'x' is the host of the party or event or whatever. Although I'm Canadian.

it depends on where you live in america too. in somewhere like seattle everyone has to have a what’s your job and title dick waving contest

i live in a more laid back city now and i have friends where i still have no idea what they do for work

Re: Layoff Thinking

#57
post #2

I don't understand the American "what do you do?" as first introduction. It's more fun to ask "how do you know 'x'" where 'x' is the host of the party or event or whatever. Although I'm Canadian.

I'm from America and I also dislike it because it's usually a rude question often used by small-minded people to pigeonhole others into presumptive stereotypes or by people who don't put much thought into substantive or genuine conversation. It's also sometimes a passive-aggressive question really asking "How much do you make?" by cheap materialists.

Alternatives:

"What do you spend time on that you enjoy?"

"How or where did you meet 'x'?"

"What's the most interesting, counterintuitive thing you've learned recently?"

[Insert situational-led curious question here.]

Re: Layoff Thinking

#58

I don't know. When I was laid off, I had no questions about my identity or self worth. I knew it wasn't any fault of mine, the company was just failing because the business plan was bad. My worry was how I was going to manage my budget, how long my savings would last, etc. It was 100% practical concerns. I didn't worry about my identity, I worried about my mortgage. I knew I had savings to last many months, but not s…

I would add, that in addition to the immediate need for income, there's an identity component of just being gainfully employed, marching along in life and providing for others. Hitting the brakes on that does psychological harm.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#59
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can never get into any kind of detail with people from a different career path. Like, "I'm a software engineer" is the most people understand. If I say "I write tests for the GPU factory to improve semiconductor yield and screen parts" then launch into something about product binning, there's only 1% of people who'll be interested. The typical marketing person or government bureaucrat won't care. Meanwhile "how d…

I love talking to people about their work, especially if it's a field I know nothing about. People spend eight hours a day doing something, they have a lot of knowledge about it. When it's a job that's opaque to me, I like asking "What's a typical day for you like at work?"

Only about 1-in-10 people have even heard of my company (AMD). Most that have are businesspeople/investors/tech workers. That is slowly changing but it is difficult to explain what segment of the economy I work in.

About 30% of Canada are in the public sector. There aren't enough jobs in the private sector, so we hire many people to reduce the unemployment rate.

Asking such a person "what's a typical day for you like at work?" would be "writing/approving briefing notes/decks". Generally, you'd ask what ministry they're in and go over the org chart. You can spend about 20 minutes figuring out the exact agency/ministry/division they work in relative to yours, then gossip about name changes or re-orgs.

Unfortunately, that only works if you're also a public sector worker.

Also, youth unemployment rate in Canada is about 15% right now. Even bringing up the subject of jobs makes people in my age group uncomfortable since you're forcing them to admit they're unemployed. It's too risky a question.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#60
post #15
post #2

I don't understand the American "what do you do?" as first introduction. It's more fun to ask "how do you know 'x'" where 'x' is the host of the party or event or whatever. Although I'm Canadian.

I follow an informal rule of "never be the first person in a conversation to bring up work/career" (or weather, or family/kids). If you play the rule like a game, it's kind of fun. After starting with a personal trainer, I made it 10 sessions (10 hours) of small talk before he finally asked me something that led to a conversation about work. It's a lot more challenging (but way more rewarding I find) to initiate conv…

I hate asking people what they do, but it's hard to know ahead of time what questions will get an excited answer, so it's sort of a fall back.
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