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How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

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Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#51

Post by andrew_wc_brown »

The customer did sound like a hassle, but by the sound of the author I think he could have admitted ways he could have improved his customer support.

- Multiple Questions that Can Be Answered from Your Website

Improve the accessibility of the questions, educate the lead/customer on its location.

- Asking for a discount

Whether you like to haggle or not, there are people that think part of the buying process requires a haggle. Have a trivial bonus you can award to your haggler so they feel like a winner.

- Carpet bombing info@ sales@ questions@ support@ and etc..

These emails are impersonal, people want to talk to real people. If you aren't a big company use your name or if you want a generic account that everyone can use just make up a name: jason@yourcompany.com

- Calling your cellphone multiple times

If you don't want to phone support. Don't list your cellphone on your website. If you have to list a number go buy one that goes to an answering machine.

- Email Ping Pong

If you're lead/customer is getting frustrated with every back paddle of an email you send back its possible you aren't communicating in a way they understand or your not giving them an answer they'd accept. You don't have to give them the answer they want just one they get.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#52

Post by chris_wot »

scott_s wrote: post #50
swombat wrote: post #2

I presume this came up because it was auto-tweeted from swombat.com (this got retweeted today: http://swombat.com/2010/12/9/how-to-detect-a-toxic-customer ). If so, it's worth pointing to Joel Spolsky's response to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1987223 Definitely worth a read alongside this article.

And please also read the counter-counter-points in that thread, in particular, one by the original author: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1988330 And http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990229

There are some great comments fom the last time this was on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1987146

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#53

Post by Datonomics »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #7

I don't see why asking for a discount is so toxic. We ask for a discount on every transaction with a 3rd party our business makes and more often than not we get one. It seems like most business to business transactions start with the "dummy price" out the gate.

I don't think the author meant to imply that asking for a discount is toxic. I think he was saying that if combined with several other behaviors, it may be a red flag.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#54

Post by anthonyb »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #7

I don't see why asking for a discount is so toxic. We ask for a discount on every transaction with a 3rd party our business makes and more often than not we get one. It seems like most business to business transactions start with the "dummy price" out the gate.

Because it's usually the people who feel that they're entitled to a discount no matter what, who also feel that they're entitled to white glove service, support calls after hours even for trivial questions (with 10 minute turnaround), similar discounts off their already discounted price, special features written just for them.

Oh and they get to stamp their feet and hop up and down with rage and send shitty emails when you don't live up to their expectations.

And they also usually do this to all of their other suppliers and customers too, which means that they tend to go out of business without warning, still owing you money.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#55

Post by jlarocco »

danielweber wrote: post #6
swombat wrote: post #2

I presume this came up because it was auto-tweeted from swombat.com (this got retweeted today: http://swombat.com/2010/12/9/how-to-detect-a-toxic-customer ). If so, it's worth pointing to Joel Spolsky's response to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1987223 Definitely worth a read alongside this article.

It's not true that large companies will form the bulk of your revenue. It all depends on what you are doing. If you are making something that every company in the world needs one of, than you will sell a lot more to the 501 through 5000th biggest companies in the country than to the top 500. (You might be able to charge those big companies a 50% or even 100% premium on various add-ons, but it won't come close to matc…

But that's not how software works most of the time.

With most software licensing schemes large companies are, for lack of a better phrase, gold mines.

They have more money, more users, more computers, more servers, require more support, and require higher up time. All of which you can charge them for if you license your software appropriately.

Not to mention it's usually easier to jump through hoops for one or two huge customers than it is for a hundred small customers.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#56

Post by npsimons »

larrys wrote: post #34
swombat wrote: post #2

I presume this came up because it was auto-tweeted from swombat.com (this got retweeted today: http://swombat.com/2010/12/9/how-to-detect-a-toxic-customer ). If so, it's worth pointing to Joel Spolsky's response to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1987223 Definitely worth a read alongside this article.

Thanks for posting that. This statement by spolsky, from my many years experience, is correct and needs to be emphasized: "Summary: while it's fine to turn away truly toxic customers, and you are welcome to decide that you'd rather sell to the starving startup founders on Y-combinator who would rather spend 2 hours scouring your website than deal with a salesperson, the corporate customers turn out to be remarkably p…

the corporate customers turn out to be remarkably price-insensitive,

I haven't read all of Spolsky's response yet, but I find this comment interesting in light of the fact that the original article specifically calls out customers who ask for a discount with no justification. Okay, I can see that some places need to check all 80 boxes on their IT purchase approval sheet (I work for one of them), but if they are asking for that, AND being impatient, AND being rude, AND asking for a discount? You don't have be an accountant to see that you will be losing money on that sale. Circumstances indeed will inform choices better than rote rules, but that cuts both ways; if you suddenly jack your prices, many customers will assume you're trying to bilk them and go somewhere else.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#57

Post by plorkyeran »

npsimons wrote: post #56
larrys wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting that. This statement by spolsky, from my many years experience, is correct and needs to be emphasized: "Summary: while it's fine to turn away truly toxic customers, and you are welcome to decide that you'd rather sell to the starving startup founders on Y-combinator who would rather spend 2 hours scouring your website than deal with a salesperson, the corporate customers turn out to be remarkably p…

the corporate customers turn out to be remarkably price-insensitive, I haven't read all of Spolsky's response yet, but I find this comment interesting in light of the fact that the original article specifically calls out customers who ask for a discount with no justification. Okay, I can see that some places need to check all 80 boxes on their IT purchase approval sheet (I work for one of them), but if they are askin…

In a lot of cases the person making the purchase won't actually care about the price, but will want to appear to care; they'd rather get 25% off $10k than 0% off $5k.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#58

Post by josephlord »

sarah2079 wrote: post #43

One thing that has really surprised me is how little you can tell about a customer based on their initial email. When I get an angry or rude email, about 95% of the time they will turn into a polite human being once I respond calmly with help for their problem. A lot of people just do not expect to be able make contact with an actual human or to get any useful help, and are angry from the get go because of this. The…

I think it is that they have usually reached a high level of frustration before they email and it all comes pouring out. The lack of expectation puts them off writing until they have reached the edge.

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#59

Post by cdf »

otakucode wrote: post #10

Never say no. EVER. I mean it. Not one single time, not under any circumstances ever. Make them say no. The way you do this is by determining just how much you would have to be paid in order to deal with the customer. It doesn't matter if it's a completely unreasonable number. Name it. Don't just presume they will refuse and turn them away. Tell them that your product which would normally cost $1k is going to cost th…

The logical conclusion is that your list price should be priced for toxic customers, and give deep discounts almost automatically to all "normal" customers.... which explains why toxic customers ask for deep discounts because they already expect to be "toxic priced".

Re: How to Detect a Toxic Customer (2010)

#60

Post by eropple »

af3 wrote: post #26

maybe YOU need to stop bitching...

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I find these one or two thoroughly killed comments at the bottom of threads fascinating and you actually seem to have other, mostly reasonable posts.

What is this post supposed to accomplish? What actual message are you trying to convey? What about this article made you feel compelled to write a one-off insult and nothing of substance?

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