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A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

fraunhofer.de

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Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#51

Post by ricardobeat »

HiPhish wrote: post #29
gnabgib wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NeGah4YJg0 It's a bit hard to search for, because they make one that punches a hole too (shows up in the video).

The problem with these staple-less staplers is that they permanently damage the paper. With a regular staple there are two tiny holes and that's it. You can bend open the staple to get back your individual sheets (e.g. to scan a particular page) and if you want to put them back together you can push the same staple or a fresh one back through the existing holes and bend it close. You can repeat the process as many ti…

This is meant for disposable packaging

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#52

Post by marcosdumay »

toss1 wrote: post #50
magicalhippo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my field by any means, but I think it's primarily to avoid adhesives that are difficult to handle during recycling. Turning the paper molecules into simple sugars and using thosr as an adhesive is presumably beneficial because the sugars would easily dissolve in the water when the paper is recycled. Most other industrial adhesives as I understand it are hydrophobic, so aren't as easily removed.

True, and this sounds very cool. But might it just be easier to develop and apply similar sugar adhesives, or other compatible or soluble adhesives (in quantities that will not affect the recycling process)? OFC, if you never introduce anything new, it is easier to feel like it is a "pure" process. Yet, what says the heat treatment isn't actually creating new molecules that could be recycling-incompatible, even thoug…

Or we could use the sugar-based adhesives that people have already researched half a millennium ago.

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#53

Post by nickpinkston »

Interestingly, you can similarly friction weld wood without added adhesive.

The welding utilizes the existing ligand glue that holds the wood fibers together, as it's essentially a natural composite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0k04hjdYuQ

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#54

Post by appletrotter »

HiPhish wrote: post #29
gnabgib wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NeGah4YJg0 It's a bit hard to search for, because they make one that punches a hole too (shows up in the video).

The problem with these staple-less staplers is that they permanently damage the paper. With a regular staple there are two tiny holes and that's it. You can bend open the staple to get back your individual sheets (e.g. to scan a particular page) and if you want to put them back together you can push the same staple or a fresh one back through the existing holes and bend it close. You can repeat the process as many ti…

That's a lot of words to explain a simple concept

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#55

Post by vintermann »

schiffern wrote: post #43
vintermann wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd gladly take every Fraunhofer "innovation" 5 years later if it meant Fraunhofer didn't exist. Compression patent extortionists are the scum of the earth.

Who said only 5 years? How does that change if it's 20 years? Or never? The monkey's paw curls. Now they were all invented by Oracle...

I can promise you that Fraudhofer has NEVER made an algorithmic innovation which would not have been "discovered" within 5 years. Of the things they have patented which are coherent enough to even qualify as an innovation, they're more likely to have been actually discovered 20 years ago by someone else.

And they're pretty much worst in class, there's no practical way they're better than other algorithm patent extortionists.

By the way, algorithms should not be patentable, and legally aren't patentable, but some presumably corrupt bureaucrats decided they for all practical purposes are patentable anyway.

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#56

Post by magicalhippo »

adrian_b wrote: post #48
magicalhippo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my field by any means, but I think it's primarily to avoid adhesives that are difficult to handle during recycling. Turning the paper molecules into simple sugars and using thosr as an adhesive is presumably beneficial because the sugars would easily dissolve in the water when the paper is recycled. Most other industrial adhesives as I understand it are hydrophobic, so aren't as easily removed.

Looks like using expensive technology to provide exactly the same effect that was provided by the cheap starch-based adhesives that were used for paper when I was a child. I really hate the people who have thought that it is a good idea to replace the water-soluble starch-based adhesives that were used for labels on bottles when I was a child with modern adhesives that are insoluble in water and which are a huge PITA…

No expert but water-soluble adhesives like wheatpaste and such rely on the water getting absorbed or evaporated. In an industrial setting I guess that makes it too slow.

Also in an industrial setting I can see an advantage of eliminating an ingredient.

As for removing labels off bottles, I seem to recall my grandpa putting the bottles in a bucket of water and washing soda (sodium carbonate), and just letting them marinate for a good while. Wasn't super hard but a bit of a chore like you say.

Re: A laser-based process that enables adhesive-free paper packaging

#57

Post by roysting »

ahartmetz wrote: post #36
roysting wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Maybe they wash out” … “The article doesn’t tell” It seems like you are engaging in rather emotional response when you admit you’re just hoping and making things up. That is not a very scientific basis. Are you biased towards this project or Fraunhofer by any chance, maybe just Germany in general? I agree with all the legitimate criticisms, especially considering that it is very possible that what they’re actually d…

Fraunhofer institutes are not bullshit factories, they are doing research partially funded by industry, and the companies funding them are generally not the bullshit-heavy types (i.e. megacorps). The megacorps do their research in-house.

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